Bug: starting pitchers get wins with less than 5 IP [Fixed 9.42H]

[Surefire]

I tried to convert a reliever to a starter, and after looking at 10 games as a starter, I notice that he is getting wins in games he starts and only pitches 3 innings.

[ohms_law]

known scoring bug.

[adam]

On this tangent, there should be some way (perhaps at the end of a season, or at the beginning of spring training) where you can switch a starter to a reliever and vica versa.

If you tell your manager to make Johnson a starter, by April 1st, he should be ready.

[ohms_law]

You can move a pitcher to any spot on the roster regardless of whether he's listed as a SP or RP. The only thing that tells you is what his endurance is (I beleave that the cut off is 50?). The auto-sort considers "starting pitchers" for relief roles as well (and even vice-versa, if you force the issue by not having enough "starting" pitchers).

[adam]

This I know. I'm not a newbie--I've been playing this game since the original.

What I'm suggesting is a way we can speed up the conversion process. Maybe if we place a person in the rotation on March 1 the program assumes he's going to be a starter and works on endurance during spring training?

[HoustonGM]

Id like to see it too. It would also help on making the relievers endurance go up MORE than it does simply by starting him. I've never seen it go higher than 60 or 70 lik ethat.

[ohms_law]

What would be cool is a spring training/practice strategies page like there currently is with the Team -> Strategies... settings. But i'm sure we won't get anything about this till next year.

even better would be actual coaches/managers that could have an effect on training... but that's a different request.

[disposablehero]

one note of warning....a starting pitcher doesnt absolutely have to go 5 innings to get the win. its actually up to the official score keeper if the starter doesnt go 5 innings and the winning run was scored while he was the pitcher.

say 3 pitchers go 3 innings and the winning run actually came in the 2nd inning. the score keeper is supposed to give the win to the 'most effective' pitcher. its just that, most often, if the starter doesnt go 5 innings, its because he wasnt 'effective'.

[HoustonGM]

one note of warning....a starting pitcher doesnt absolutely have to go 5 innings to get the win. its actually up to the official score keeper if the starter doesnt go 5 innings and the winning run was scored while he was the pitcher.

say 3 pitchers go 3 innings and the winning run actually came in the 2nd inning. the score keeper is supposed to give the win to the 'most effective' pitcher. its just that, most often, if the starter doesnt go 5 innings, its because he wasnt 'effective'.
Actually, Wikipedia:


An exception to this is that a pitcher who starts a game cannot be credited with a win if he does not pitch at least five innings. If his team takes a lead it does not relinquish while that pitcher is in the game, the win is awarded to the relieving pitcher who, in the judgment of the scorer, pitched the most effectively. The winning pitcher cannot, however, be a pitcher who is credited with a save in the same game.
It goes to the most effective RELIEVER in the situation when the starter doesn't go the full five innings. A starter who doesnt pitch 5 innings cannot get the win.

[Surefire]

IMO, this scoring issue is pretty important. I hope it will be addressed in version 8. In other words, I'd rather see an IMO blatant scoring error get corrected than adding more bells and whistles.

[disposablehero]

Actually, Wikipedia:


It goes to the most effective RELIEVER in the situation when the starter doesn't go the full five innings. A starter who doesnt pitch 5 innings cannot get the win.

not correct.

this is another case of the many many times that whoever typed that into Wiki is a jackass and is typing what they think instead of what they know.

[HoustonGM]

not correct.

this is another case of the many many times that whoever typed that into Wiki is a jackass and is typing what they think instead of what they know.
From MLB's official rules:


WINNING AND LOSING PITCHER
10.19
(a) Credit the starting pitcher with a game won only if he has pitched at least five complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is replaced but remains in the lead the remainder of the game.
(b)The “must pitch five complete innings” rule in respect to the starting pitcher shall be in effect for all games of six or more innings. In a five-inning game, credit the starting pitcher with a game won if he has pitched at least four complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is replaced but remains in the lead the remainder of the game.

[ohms_law]

Whoever wrote the wiki article didn't add enough information, but it is basically correct. I would recommend reading section 10.19 of the official rules in whole.


IMO, this scoring issue is pretty important. I hope it will be addressed in version 8. In other words, I'd rather see an IMO blatant scoring error get corrected than adding more bells and whistles.
I would tend to agree, as stats are extremely important in baseball. That being said, Clay and Ian are right in the middle of some other things right now that directly impact gameplay. What i'm saying is that it should certainly be fix as soon as possible, but I don't think that they should drop everything this instand to start working on this problem.

[disposablehero]

huh, my bad. sorry.

[Clay Dreslough]

What I'm suggesting is a way we can speed up the conversion process. Maybe if we place a person in the rotation on March 1 the program assumes he's going to be a starter and works on endurance during spring training?This is the way it should be working. You're welcome to test it using two different sims of Spring Training: one with a pitcher in the rotation and one with him as the closer or setup guy.

Nevertheless, I agree there should be a more direct way like the 'Change Position' option for position players.

As for the title of this thread, I believe the only exception is that a starter in the All-Star Game can get the win. Mogul TRIES to award the win to a reliever for games when the starter goes less than five. But I see now looking at the code that its possible for the win to go to the starter so I'll fix that.

Clay

[SirKodiak]

This is the way it should be working. You're welcome to test it using two different sims of Spring Training: one with a pitcher in the rotation and one with him as the closer or setup guy.

Nevertheless, I agree there should be a more direct way like the 'Change Position' option for position players.

Clay
Something I'd like to point out about starters moving to closers or closers moving to starters. Usually more than just endurance changes, pitch selection does too. A starter that becomes a closer stops throwing certain pitches and concentrates on his best pitches (usually power pitches) and his velocity (and K/9) goes up . A closer becoming a starter will start throwing pitches he normally doesn't because he is going to be facing individual batters multiple times, and his velocity goes down as he is pacing himself.

Some examples from the Neyer/James book:
Eric Gagne
Pitches as Starter (1999-2001) [K/9 = ~7.7]

Curve
Fastball (low-90's)
Cut fastball

Pitches as Reliever (2002-2003) [K/9 = ~13]

Fastball (mid-90's)
Change (87)
Slow Curve


John Smoltz
Pitches as Starter (1989-1999) (really varies) [K/9 = ~8]

Two-seam Fastball
Four-seam Fastball (not sure speed, but doubt it was 98)
Hard Slider
Curve
Circle Change (also threw straight change)
Split-finger Fastball (became outstanding pitch, but dropped it due to stain on elbow)

Pitches as Reliever (2001-2004) [K/9 = ~9.4]

Slider
Fastball (98)
Split-Finger Fastball (90) (brought it back!)
Change

Pitchers as Starter (2005- ) [K/9 = ~7.5]
Unknown (Neyer/James not updated)

Hopefully food for thought at least, I know there are other guys out there that made the transition (Eck, Gordon, Dempster, etc) that the K/9 changes could be looked at...

[SirKodiak]

moved my above starter <--> closer discussion to http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthread.php?t=113609 as I don't think it should be in bugs or in this particular thread.

[Surefire]

Much obliged on the fix. I love the quick turnaround time and excellent customer service.


Quick question, where is the 9.42H update posted? I don't see it in this thread, or in the main 9.42 bugs thread.

[ohms_law]

It's not up yet. I'm sure that Clay will probably post it in the next couple of days though.