Excessive Injuries

[BenRS]

Hey, just got this game about a week ago and am impressed so far, except for one thing.

I'm not sure if using simulation mode changes this, but after playing through about 10 seasons and using numerous different starters, even monitoring their "health" ratings, I believe I can say that the game generates WAY too many injuries.

I have not yet recorded exact data to back this up, but I can say that without the clear injuries function, I've averaged about 3-4 100-300 day injuries a year, 3 or so 20-30 day injuries, and about 7-8 other (>20 days) injuries a year. At one point I had two broken neck vertebrea in the same year (to two of my best players I should add), and over another cross-season period of 200 days, I had two torn rotater cuffs on INFIELDERS. I've gotten so frustrated at the excessive ammounts of injuries, and having no way to modify injury frequency to make it more realistic that I have begun to clear injuries after I get too large an ammount of injuries, and even that doesn't work to well because I also clear out the more realistic (having a pulled muscle on a team every couple weeks) with the less believable ones.

Is there any way to fix this, and were the programmers intending to have so many injuries?

If so, do they expect that every team should have a DL contingency roughly equivalent to the 06 Yankees or 05 Panthers? Do they really think that disregarding lucky every team would be a virtual mash unit?

This has been frustrating me to no end, any response is highly appreciated.

[HoustonGM]

The injury amounts and things have been extensively researched by Clay, however, a lot of people agree its too much.

Which is why there is indeed an option for the amount of injuries. Go to League > League Editor, then click Enable Commisionar Mode, then OK. Then, you'll see in the middle a number of options, including INJURY FREQUENCY and INJURY SEVERITY.

Adjust them to how you want, and click done. T hen go to League > Options and make sure to uncheck Commisioner Mode.

I use -30 or 40% for Frequency and -10% for Severity.

[BenRS]

The injury amounts and things have been extensively researched by Clay, however, a lot of people agree its too much.

Which is why there is indeed an option for the amount of injuries. Go to League > League Editor, then click Enable Commisionar Mode, then OK. Then, you'll see in the middle a number of options, including INJURY FREQUENCY and INJURY SEVERITY.

Adjust them to how you want, and click done. T hen go to League > Options and make sure to uncheck Commisioner Mode.

I use -30 or 40% for Frequency and -10% for Severity.

Aha, I see. I tried the commissioner mode thing, but couldn't find it the first time (ie before the post). Thanks for the info.

BTW, do you know anything of the methodology Clay used to formulate his injury code? I'm curious as to how it was developed; it seems sometimes that all of the research in the world does no good if there is a minor flaw in how it's applied.

Also, does anyone really think that women will ever enter baseball? I mean, I'm sure that there are some ones that could perhaps serve as contact/OBP hitters, but the whole muscular/skeletal difference thing would seem to interfere with the fight for equality in this case.

[ohms_law]

Also, does anyone really think that women will ever enter baseball? I mean, I'm sure that there are some ones that could perhaps serve as contact/OBP hitters, but the whole muscular/skeletal difference thing would seem to interfere with the fight for equality in this case.
I always set women enter baseball to 0. gotta be carefull though or Clays wife will come on here are beat us all...
:)

[TheNamelessPoet]

women are banned because in the i believe early 20's in an exebition game a woman struck out the yankees "murders Row" BTW i set mine to 2007 once and went all the way to 2050 and never had a woman enter.

[ohms_law]

I've never heard that before... got a link to the story? That really smells like BS (no offense, it just does).

I've left it at 2020 or whatever the default is and simmed out to 2401. There were plenty of women on the leaderboards by then.
:)

[robinhoodnik]

I think they will eventually get into MLB. I think the first women in will be pitchers. A nasty curve doesn't have to be paired with a 98 mph. fastball to be successful. How about a fast pitch pitcher becoming a submariner? The mechanics aren't too dissimilar really. It wouldn't be like learning an over the top curve. A speedy contact type could come in as a gate attraction for a bottom feeder too. K.C. could certainly use something out there. It's also an untapped gold mine of merchandising. Could you imagine all of the jerseys you could sell to girls if a woman got into the bigs?

[ohms_law]

oh, you'll get no arguments from me on any of the above points. I just think that the days of owners signing players in order to pull stunts (like signing midgets and whatnot) are long over. I'm sure that the MLBPA, let alone local, state and congressional reps would have something to say about that if some owner actually tried to pull that kind of BS today.
The fact is is that women take professional sports pretty seriously in this day an age. The first women to enter baseball will be required to pay her dues through high school, at least some collage, and probably at least a few years in the minors. owners, other players, sportswriters, and female fans will demand nothing less.
A perfect example of what i'm talking about is Michelle Wie's attempt to qualify on the men's circuit. She's still extremely young, but she's been paying her dues. That's exactly what a female ballplayer would have to go through.
It's pretty much the same sort of thing that Jackie Robinson had to deal with, you know?

...still, until it happens in reality, I ain't gonna sim it.
:)

[Jeff Olsen]

I've never heard that before... got a link to the story? That really smells like BS (no offense, it just does).I believe it's an exaggeration of the Jackie Mitchell story (http://www.exploratorium.edu/baseball/mitchell.html).

[TheNamelessPoet]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_Ruth
Under trivia.

[TheNamelessPoet]

its even in wikipedia. Its almost to the bottom of the page

[TheNamelessPoet]

I also red it in a historical book on baseball.

[ohms_law]

ah, I see it. I think that you've exagerated the story a bit there yourself guy.
:)

Striking out Ruth and Gehrig once in an exhibition game with a Knuckleball is a slightly different story than saying:

a woman struck out the yankees "murders Row"...
besides the fact that women are not officialy banned.

[Jeff Olsen]

besides the fact that women are not officialy banned.When I was looking for the story, I found a mention of them officially banned from MLB in '52 but I also found mention that the ban was lifted in '92.

[Rongar]

According to the film "A League Of Their Own" due to the shortage of male players - off to World War 2 - women did, indeed, play serious ball

[HoustonGM]

According to the film "A League Of Their Own" due to the shortage of male players - off to World War 2 - women did, indeed, play serious ball
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-American_Girls_Professional_Baseball_League

It wasn't in MLB-affiliated leagues. There are still currently professional women baseball leagues in America and throughout the world, but not affiliated with MLB.

[Rongar]

Just been reading up on "Women in Baseball" (TOTAL BASEBALL 3RD EDITION published by Harper)... there's an article within, that, besides confirming the formation of an entire women's league (1943-54), goes on to tell of court battles in the 'seventies which enabled girls to play on Little League teams, and concludes with the hope that, eventually, women will take their place in baseball "...making it a truly National game"

[bmoseley07]

There are waaay to many complications with women in baseball. First of all, women and men don't generally mix well. Then you'd have emotions between players more then usual. Two different clubhouses, teams would lack chemistry, the player's wife's would get jealous, and hundreds of players would boycott. Plus, there's no way a man would bowl over a woman catcher. He'd be otrasiced (sp) like crazy. The talent spectrum for the two genders in baseball is incredibly different. I mean, if they don't intergrate tennis, then there's really no hope for baseball.. at all.

[TheNamelessPoet]

There are waaay to many complications with women in baseball. First of all, women and men don't generally mix well. Then you'd have emotions between players more then usual. Two different clubhouses, teams would lack chemistry, the player's wife's would get jealous, and hundreds of players would boycott. Plus, there's no way a man would bowl over a woman catcher. He'd be otrasiced (sp) like crazy. The talent spectrum for the two genders in baseball is incredibly different. I mean, if they don't intergrate tennis, then there's really no hope for baseball.. at all.
AMEN

[ohms_law]

Tough; people will get over that BS. It's happened in the past, and it will eventually happen in baseball. The first pro female ball player just needs to have the poise to stand up to it all.

you can't really compare baseball to tennis either. tennis is more... stratified, if you know what I mean. It's similar to Golf actually, but there's an even larger bent in the tennis world twords money and aristocracy.

[bmoseley07]

Tough; people will get over that BS. It's happened in the past, and it will eventually happen in baseball. The first pro female ball player just needs to have the poise to stand up to it all.

you can't really compare baseball to tennis either. tennis is more... stratified, if you know what I mean. It's similar to Golf actually, but there's an even larger bent in the tennis world twords money and aristocracy.

I have no idea what you mean by stratified, but the playing levels of men and women are a hel l of lot closer in tennis then in baseball. And no people will not get over that "BS" which isn't BS. It's never going to happen. I repeat, never. They had crippled dudes playing when the war was going on. How many of those have you seen around nowadays. None, exaclty.

Also, I don't see what money and "aristocracy" have anything to do with this. We're talking about men playing women. There's money in baseball too, so I don't know where you were running with that one.

But anyways, there are a bunch of sports I could gender-mixing happening: tennis, golf, swimming, basketball (although highly unlikely for a lot of the reasons I mentioned before).

Besides, it would probably be the worst thing to happen to baseball.. including the whole steriods scandel. And not to mention, MLB would lose millions of loyal fans. If you think DH caused an uproar when it was instated, you don't want to see what this would be like.

[BenRS]

I like to see women participating in sports as I don't see any reason why they shouldn't have the same opportunities that men should have. That said, there are issues that have nothing whatsoever to do with equality and fairness--practical issues, that I feel make the integration of women in to baseball a bad idea.

Something already hinted at with the female catcher situation is perhaps first and foremost in my point of view.

It's not at all uncommon to see injuries in home plate collisions with male catchers and male baserunners. How on earth will women fair in these situations when just by nature of how they were created they have significantly less mass per bone, less height, smaller frames, and less fast-twitch muscles? Can we honestly think that a 5-7, 120 pound woman getting bowled over by a 6-2, 200 pound man is not a recipe for disaster?

It's really the same with any collisions on the base-paths. Many remember a couple years ago when Derek Jeter was injured after colliding with a catcher on third, and in this case the injured person even had the momentum going his way.

I can think of two times this season alone that extended time periods on the DL were caused at by collisions at first base: Derrek Lee and Gary Sheffield.

I don't think anyone wants to see God forbid a moment that could clearly be in the making in these situations when a female gets in to a head on collision with a guy that's twice her size and ends up breaking multiple bones, tearing ligaments, or worse.

Second off, what of the ackward sitautions that might arise. I'm sure that all can agree that integrated dressing rooms, atleast in the immediate future, are a bad idea. So, as also hinted before, what does that do to team chemistry? Teams are often very comfortable around each other, and it's not uncommon to see half-naked men scampering around the clubhouse (or people like Johnny Damon doing fully-unclothed pullups). It just seems like it would be a little hard to manage the clubhouse like this without an integrated dressing room, and I highly doubt that all athletes would be mature enough to handle such a situation with respect.

As other people mentioned, there's also the jealous wife thing, plus also what does it do to clubhouse chemistry if two teammates get romantically involved?

Finally, probably the lesser of the issues, which is natural strength. I mean, personally if a female works really hard and is able to become strong enough to throw/hit in rank with a male (something I don't see as too likely except in some exceptional cases), this isn't a problem. But I can see that female outfielders, short-stops, and sluggers might prove a bit difficult.

I suppose that some day, with perhaps the advent of better protective gear, hard work ethics, and some ingenuity with the locker-room situation, it might be possible to see female baseball players.

Still, it just doesn't look likely or at all like a good idea.

edit: Wow, how off-topic this thread has gotten.

[robinhoodnik]

They had crippled dudes playing when the war was going on. How many of those have you seen around nowadays. None, exaclty.
Jim Abbott: The Central High athlete, born without a right hand, wound up playing 11 years of major league baseball. Along the way he pitched for the University of Michigan, carried the U.S. flag at the Pan American Games and won the gold-medal game at the 1988 Olympics.
Curtis Pride (http://deafness.about.com/cs/celebfeatures/a/curtispride.htm) Deaf.

[robinhoodnik]

If the Red Sox announced tomorrow that they'd signed a woman who could play second, hit around .300, and put some pitches over the very close, Green Monster, I wouldn't have any complaints.

Originally posted by Ohms Law: I just think that the days of owners signing players in order to pull stunts (like signing midgets and whatnot) are long over.
Maybe in the A.L. and N.L. (at least as long as MLB iswilling to buy back franchises and fold them), but not in the minors. There are always publicity stunts and over the top promotions going on there. If a team found a solid female player I think that you may see her progress to the majors in the right organization.

[bmoseley07]

True. I forgot about Abbott.

[BenRS]

Jim Abbott: The Central High athlete, born without a right hand, wound up playing 11 years of major league baseball. Along the way he pitched for the University of Michigan, carried the U.S. flag at the Pan American Games and won the gold-medal game at the 1988 Olympics.
Curtis Pride (http://deafness.about.com/cs/celebfeatures/a/curtispride.htm) Deaf.

o_O!!!

How the eff did he throw?

[HoustonGM]

o_O!!!

How the eff did he throw?
His other hand.

[ohms_law]

All of the excuses and reasons that yall are throwing our are the exact same excuses that have been used to keep women out of... well, everything. History in everything that has been integrated proves you wrong.

[MrMackie]

o_O!!!

How the eff did he throw?

He'd keep his mitt on his right arm while throwing a pitch and then quickly put it on his fully-formed left hand after his release. It was quite something to see.

[Royals #1]

I'm kind of enjoying this thread.

I mean, after all the name of this thread is "excessive injuries," and yet we're talking about women in baseball... love it! :D

[Brewersfan]

you should've seen abbott bat! also can u imagine roger clemens throwing a brushback pitch at 90mph at a 115 lb women!!!

[robinhoodnik]

I have no doubt that he'd do it, he went up and in on his own kid. Imagine Pedro plunking a woman?:eek:

[bmoseley07]

Ohms.. are you seriously being serious?? I mean can you not see any reasonable complications at all with men and women on the same team? I don't know how this would turn out good at all. We're not making any excuses. Facts are facts bud. And facts are that it would ruin the game. If you think those are excuses you need to get out in the real world again.

[Jeff Olsen]

I mean can you not see any reasonable complications at all with men and women on the same team? It's working pretty good for the military.
And facts are that it would ruin the game.You're confusing "fact" with "opinion".

[ohms_law]

It's working pretty good for the military.

You're confusing "fact" with "opinion".
exactly. i've lived and am living in the real world. I've lived through integrations personally. when it happens (and beleave me, it will eventually), it'll be tough for alot of people to accept, but it will happen.

[bmoseley07]

It's working pretty good for the military.You're confusing "fact" with "opinion".

Firstly, I don't think it's working well with the military, but I've never been there, so I can't really say. I'm sure it does have some effect though.

And I'm not confusing fact with opinion. A 125lb women getting bowled over by 225lb man is not going to over well. That's a fact. A clubhouse that's split because of gender is not going to fair well. A relationship in the clubhouse between players is not going to go over well. The awkward-ness will be astounding. When a male ballplayer disses a female ballplayer, it would get ugly. If you deny these things, you're just turning a blind eye towards a potential massive problem.

[bmoseley07]

The only way women are ever going to get in the MLB is if scientists make it so there is no physical indifference between men and women. And that's ignoring the rest of the problems. Until then it's not happening.

[ohms_law]

Firstly, I don't think it's working well with the military, but I've never been there, so I can't really say.
I have.

[robinhoodnik]

As long as a woman makes a team based on merit, and stays there based on merit, I'm for it. I don't think it'll be a 125 lb'er who's behind the plate. It would more likely be a tall (for a woman) 160-170 lb'er playing as a fourth outfielder or UI who's the first one (aside from a pitcher, which I think is the most likely spot for it).

[bmoseley07]

Alright good for you, but have you ever heard of cliques? They typically ruin teams and when you have to have two clubhouses, cliques are going to form, and that's a recipe for disaster. I've seen it ruin many teams before and it would n't work here either, but I like how you continue to ignore the physical aspect of this all which hasn't changed since men and women were created and isn't anytime soon.

[bmoseley07]

As long as a woman makes a team based on merit, and stays there based on merit, I'm for it. I don't think it'll be a 125 lb'er who's behind the plate. It would more likely be a tall (for a woman) 160-170 lb'er playing as a fourth outfielder or UI who's the first one (aside from a pitcher, which I think is the most likely spot for it).

I can't see it. I just can't see it. The first time anybody hurts her, there's going to be an uproar- a media frenzy.

[BaseballSultan]

Will they keep a one-handed woman pitcher out of MLB?

The Sultan

[robinhoodnik]

You seem to think Carmen Electra is going to be joining the Yankees. It would NOT be a swimsuit model type. There ARE larger sized women athletes out there and some of them, if given the chance, may just make a pro team. Especially the pitchers from fast pitch softball. Ever see the exhibitions that pit a MLB hitter against a female fast pitch pitcher? They can't hit them well. They obviously have the arm/shoulder/leg strength to get a ball moving and with some work could easily convert their pitching style. You don't get the same stride in baseball but you also have the height advantage to make up for it.

[robinhoodnik]

I can't see it. I just can't see it. The first time anybody hurts her, there's going to be an uproar- a media frenzy.
I think that with baseball it'd be more of a breath holding exercise. They'd wait to see if she could take it. I doubt that anyone would expect players to go easy on the woman. I think that some players would go out of their way to spike or cut down a female second baseman turning the double play. That would be the test. If she got back up and toughed it out, it would be over on the spot. She'd need a small separate place to dress and shower but so what?

[ohms_law]

Professional athletes are, almost by definition, not typical of the rest of us in terms of physical traits. Assuming that a woman who is contending to become a professional ballplayer would be 125lb's (and from the sounds of the way your putting it "petite") is not only a mistake, but prejudiced. I'm ignoring the physical aspects because I don't see them as being a large factor in the equasion.
Obviously there are differences between men and women. Ignoring that would be silly. however, the differences are hardly extreme when you consider the top 1% of the human population, physically.

[robinhoodnik]

David Eckstein (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6688) ain't exactly in the class of Frank Thomas (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4527) physically, but he gets it done out there. And it's a well known fact that players height and weight are pumped up in this sort of situation. Eckstein is definitely not that tall or heavy.

[ohms_law]

yea, great point there. afterall, we are talking baseball. it's not quite the same as football or hockey...

anyway, I worked all night so i'm off to sleep. good discussion though, i'm kindof enjoying it.
:)

[HoustonGM]

I think that it will eventually be plausible to have women play in the majors. However, political correctness has to be done away with, and the double standard that exists between men and women needs to be smashed (You know, the women can hit and harass men, but the men can't do it to the women, ****)

[bmoseley07]

I dont know, for me, it would just be annoying, because then there would all these stats for women and men. The media would suck. It might turn me away from baseball. I don't even wanna think about it haha.

[Brewersfan]

I have no doubt that he'd do it, he went up and in on his own kid. Imagine Pedro plunking a woman?:eek:
imagine a woman charging the mound!! now that would be something to see.

[robinhoodnik]

I'd pay to see a woman charge the mound. Now that's entertainment.:D
The stats shouldn't be divided at all. They never were for black players when the began playing, and there should be no special stats for women either. Either you can play, or you can't.

[robinhoodnik]

I'd imagine that Casey Fossum vs. Woman would be a good match based on size alone.:)