Military Leave

[Gaedel]

If you were to start a simulation in 1944, a large number of star baseball players would be missing from your team and, as you sim forward, will never come back to baseball. Conversely, if you begin play in 1940, these players will never "drop out" for one to four years.


There are three eras where "military leave" was a factor in baseball: 1917-1918, 1941-1945, and 1950-1953. Of thses, the WWII years were the most significant.

Should these considerations be a part of the rosters??

[Frost]

i'd say no. i'd would rather see the numbers generated without having to send boys off to war. just to get a glimpse of what numbers some guys could have possibly had.

[bmoseley07]

I agree with Frost. I wanna see what Ted Williams could have done and such.

[ohms_law]

It could eventually be an option though (i'm thinking 2k8 here), for those who want that. I imagine that it wouldn't be too hard to implement. During the war years, select 25% of players and say that they've been called away. of those, something like 60% should probably never come back.

[Gaedel]

I was thinkling more of starting in a war year. If you start in 1944, Ted Williams, Joe Dimaggio, and a lot of other 40s and 50s stars won't be on the roster and will never appear in future years.

Really a roster change and not a sim change. In 1944, show each teams missing guys as (ML) and hold them out as if they were on the (DL) until 1946.

[ohms_law]

*nods*
both "systems" are logical extensions of the whole thought. You would need to adjust the system to work with sims that start in 1901 and sims that start in 1946 anyway.

It could play well into the Historical All-Stars teams that Clay brought up yesterday as well.

[Jeff Olsen]

I was thinkling more of starting in a war year. If you start in 1944, Ted Williams, Joe Dimaggio, and a lot of other 40s and 50s stars won't be on the roster and will never appear in future years.

Really a roster change and not a sim change. In 1944, show each teams missing guys as (ML) and hold them out as if they were on the (DL) until 1946.I know finding who was in the service during that time is easy; Neft & Cohen have a list in their Baseball encyclopedia ("http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312350015/sr=1-4/qid=1153492445/ref=sr_1_4/103-5102539-9755811?ie=UTF8&s=books) (page 228 in the current edition). The same book can be used for other years of service but they're not all grouped together like WWII is.

[robinhoodnik]

60% is way too high a number to never come back. Some didn't because of age but many players were assigned away from the fronts. They played ball for their respective branches of the service and acted as good will ambassadors/recruiting tools. Take Ted Williams for example. He became a Marine pilot and was supposed to have been so good that he was made an instructor. I don't know for sure if that story is completely true but in WWII he saw no action. Korea however had him called back to service where he learned to fly the new jets in a very short timespan. He did see combat there, and was nearly shot down.

[robinhoodnik]

Although WWI was a different story.

[ohms_law]

well, the numbers that I gave above were just examples. Obviously, they could be played with, and I doubt that Clay and Ian would take any number we suggest just because; at least not without alot of research behind it.

[TheJay]

Hopefully if this is implemented (and I think it should be an option) so that players not in the 1943, '44, etc., database do come back in 1946, the thing about retired players that should be in the HoF will be brought in, too.

Another thing about military leave: for historical sims where players do have a mass exodus or whatever in 1942, the incoming talent (through draft and/or new free agents) should be pretty awful to simulate both the decline in average play and to make sure the players coming back in '46 end up replacing the scrubs that filled in. You'd also have to finagle it so that players that leave end up on the same teams they were on before. I kind of like the ML list idea.


During the war years, select 25% of players and say that they've been called away.

I kind of like that idea, too, if you slanted the percentage of players called away to lean more towards the stars getting taken. That makes sense in that for publicity, morale, what-have-you, the bigger names would have a bigger impact than someone like Jelly Jelincich (http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/jelinfr01.shtml).

[ScorpioPrimus]

My 2¢:
There should be a "military service" toggle option, to reflect those who were called up during war or the draft. (I may be wrong, but I think Willie Mays missed two years at the beginning of his career because he was drafted into the Army.)

For the historical players who served, the game should be hard coded to reflect reality (assuming you play with "simulation" activated), i.e.; Ted Williams will serve in both WWII & Korea, but won't be killed. Those players who were killed in the war, will be.

For the fictional players (if any), some sort of percentage algorithm should come into play. For example, 60% of going into the military, 5% of a career-ending war wound, 1% of being KIA -- whatever reflects reality. I think this would add more "reality" to the game.

[Gaedel]

My 2¢:
There should be a "military service" toggle option, to reflect those who were called up during war or the draft. (I may be wrong, but I think Willie Mays missed two years at the beginning of his career because he was drafted into the Army.)


Williue Mays missed the 1952 and, I believe, the 1953 season due to the draft.

Art Houtteman (won 19 games for the Tigers in 1950) was called up for the 1951 season and was never the same pitcher after that.

Curt Simmons was #2 pitcher for the 1950 Phila Phillies "Whiz Kids" and was called up just before the 1950 World Series.

[ohms_law]

Curt Simmons was #2 pitcher for the 1950 Phila Phillies "Whiz Kids" and was called up just before the 1950 World Series.
ouch! that had to piss some people off...

[TheJay]

ouch! that had to piss some people off...

Nah, they were playing the Yankees so it surely wasn't coincidental ;).

[ohms_law]

Lol!