Beantown Lion?

[FRENCHREDSOX]

Whilst the MLB is determining who is the best team this season,a "new game "
will shortly begin thanks to this little announcement out of Japan (Bidding will be at least 20/25 million just to have the rights to negociate it seems...)




http://www.japanball.com/news.phtml?id=8090

[ohms_law]

(Bidding will be at least 20/25 million just to have the rights to negociate it seems...)

where do you see this?

[SFSteveG]

That's insane. I wonder if He'll be signing the Yankees contract in Japan or NY?

[FRENCHREDSOX]

where do you see this?

Its the figure that has been "bandied" around by Journalists in the US & Japan,
I will find you some threads



http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamondbacks/articles/0922dbxmain0922.html

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/15616073.htm

http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/nwsltr/sports/rangers/stories/090606dnsporangletter.6d12d035.html

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=stone06&date=20060806&source=st

http://www.japanball.com/letter081606.htm

http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=3939147

[FRENCHREDSOX]

The last time the Western Hemisphere got a look at Daisuke Matsuzaka, the right-handed pitcher was leading Team Japan to a victory in the inaugural World Baseball Classic Matsuzaka was at the top of his game and was named the tournament's most valuable player, beating out, among others, the team's star right fielder, Ichiro Suzuki. Matsuzaka was 3-0 with a 1.38 ERA. Seven months later, Matsuzaka is ready to head to the United States permanently. The Mariners can't get away with a $13.1 million winning bid this time around. The New York Yankees are involved, and any time the Yankees are in the mix, things are bound to get pricey -- maybe $30 million or more. ... Not that Matsuzaka isn't worth a few bucks to the Mariners, who are seeking two or three starting pitchers before spring training in February.

the rest http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/288216_mari11.html

[FRENCHREDSOX]

starting to get interesting...


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2623169

[oriole^]

Preposterous. Yet another victory for the Yankees, and another defeat for competitive balance and Major League Baseball.

[FRENCHREDSOX]

Not done yet , Yankees still have to post the offer& then sign him -Matzusaka agent = Scott Boras so ...

[Brad Blaze]

Boston should bring him in. They need pitching so much that $40 or $50 million just to negotiate with this guy would be worth it. Besides, other than the Yankees, Boston has the biggest pockets in baseball and they need him more than the Yanks do.

Maybe he's not worth it though. Money can't buy a World Series. The NFL is competitively imbalanced despite a salary cap, while baseball remains perfectly balanced without a cap. This year, the Tigers and Athletics have proven once again that anybody can make the World Series (as the Diamondbacks, Angels, Marlins, Red Sox, and White Sox have proven in the prior 5 years). That definitely gives the Pirates faithful (not to mention all the Cub fans) hope for next year.

[FRENCHREDSOX]

Boston should bring him in. They need pitching so much that $40 or $50 million just to negotiate with this guy would be worth it. Besides, other than the Yankees, Boston has the biggest pockets in baseball and they need him more than the Yanks do.



yes they do but Steinbrenner still has more money to spend than Boston but the question how much will he go for ? Ichiro was the last one posted 13.1 million so a 27 year old with a 17-5 record in a 'poor' year of FA pitching will be interesting .

Thing is Matzusaka will most probably end up to one of the teams that lose out on Schmidt & ZITO which gives the Red Sox a chance

[FRENCHREDSOX]

The price just went UP (if that is possible)


http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/6094078

[FRENCHREDSOX]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/465012p-391288c.html

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/askba/262707.html

[beerchaser]

So between the $$$ just to be able to negotiate plus whatever would have to be paid to him annually, we're talking ARod type money for a guy who hasn't even played a day in MLB?

Hmmph.

[FRENCHREDSOX]

So between the $$$ just to be able to negotiate plus whatever would have to be paid to him annually, we're talking ARod type money for a guy who hasn't even played a day in MLB?

Hmmph.

Normally it will be about 15 mill all factored in (20 mill + 10/12 mill for 4/5 years) but the Boras factor could drive that figure to 20 mill a year


But his upside is very very impressive ....

[beerchaser]

Potential upside is impressive, sure, but proven performance is still very much a question mark. To me, anyway. I'd have to think long and hard before paying him $10m per year, let alone $20m. He's certainly benefitting from what is a lean year for FA pitching.

I can't stand Bora$$ either. Nothing personal against his clients, but I'd love to see his tail get kicked and his nose get publicly rubbed in the dirt a couple of times. Go crawl back under a rock.

[FRENCHREDSOX]

Potential upside is impressive, sure, but proven performance is still very much a question mark. To me, anyway. I'd have to think long and hard before paying him $10m per year, let alone $20m. He's certainly benefitting from what is a lean year for FA pitching.

I can't stand Bora$$ either. Nothing personal against his clients, but I'd love to see his tail get kicked and his nose get publicly rubbed in the dirt a couple of times. Go crawl back under a rock.

But from his CLIENTS P.O.V. he is the best - the way he got Hicks to outbid himself by a 100m$ to get "A-Rod" is gigantesque;


On Matzusaka his age & upside are tremendous.I'm not normally sold on Japanese pitching but this guy is different - his numbers are consistent 4 times ERA champ,3 times K champ ,6 times 15+ wins & this year after pitching
Japan to the WBC championship he goes 17 -5;


It is because he is an "unproven" pitcher that he will be asking for this price but if he had some US experience the guy could have got 5m/year more....

[beerchaser]

Oh I'm sure his clients LOVE him, but that doesn't make him any less a jerk to the rest of the world.

Hicks may be rich as dirt but he's apparently an idiot. I saw a rumor somewhere today that he may pay as much as $30-40 million or more just for the right to talk to Matsuzaka (or rather, to Bora$$). Of course, that "rumor" may well have been floated by Bora$$ himself. I would not put that past him.

Nor is Hicks by himself in the dunce corner. Bora$$ once got former (thank goodness I can call him that) Dodgers GM Kevin Malone in a bidding war against himself for the privilege of paying $15M per year to Kevin Brown a few years ago. I think we all know how that turned out.

Bora$$ certainly knows how to suck money out of people who have too much money and too little brains. But he's still a jerk. Just sayin'....

[FRENCHREDSOX]

Oh I'm sure his clients LOVE him, but that doesn't make him any less a jerk to the rest of the world.

Hicks may be rich as dirt but he's apparently an idiot. I saw a rumor somewhere today that he may pay as much as $30-40 million or more just for the right to talk to Matsuzaka (or rather, to Bora$$). Of course, that "rumor" may well have been floated by Bora$$ himself. I would not put that past him.

Nor is Hicks by himself in the dunce corner. Bora$$ once got former (thank goodness I can call him that) Dodgers GM Kevin Malone in a bidding war against himself for the privilege of paying $15M per year to Kevin Brown a few years ago. I think we all know how that turned out.

Bora$$ certainly knows how to suck money out of people who have too much money and too little brains. But he's still a jerk. Just sayin'....

Agreed Agreed Agreed - but if you were Matzusaka who would you hire especially in a "bidding war" ?


No he will get the kid agood deal - & the FA market is so thin he in my opinion (& I m not the only one it seems) is the best of the class & still is in his mid 20's.So unlike some other guys you get to sign him on the up & not at peak on the way down...

[FRENCHREDSOX]

A possible new "bidder" ? & other Japanese possible imports...:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6097342

[FRENCHREDSOX]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6124634

[disposablehero]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2656687

[ohms_law]

where is... ah, here we go.
I don't usually do this sort of thing in General Discussions, but the two threads are so appropriate to be together.

[FRENCHREDSOX]

If that is true (& its a big if...) great move by the Sox - his "posting rights" will be paid for by the Japanese themselves (thru merchandising & TV rights with NESN) - similar to the David Beckham transfer to Real Madrid for 15 million $ (which was re paid in increased Shirt sales in 11 days !)

[Red Sox Fan 734]

And dont forget that the posting fee doesn't count against the salary cap. If Boston signed Zito or Schmidt all of there money would count against the salary cap. If its true, it will be a very smart move.

[HoustonGM]

And dont forget that the posting fee doesn't count against the salary cap. If Boston signed Zito or Schmidt all of there money would count against the salary cap. If its true, it will be a very smart move.
What salary cap? Are you referring to the luxury tax threshold?

[FRENCHREDSOX]

Are you referring to the luxury tax threshold?

Yes he is...

[Red Sox Fan 734]

What salary cap? Are you referring to the luxury tax threshold?
Yes, i am

[disposablehero]

any interesting warning from a BP blogger....

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4427/1562/1600/Matsuzaka%20PAP%20Analysis.jpg

[disposablehero]

and an interesting sidenote to the losers in the Matsu bidding...


Nothing yet on Matsuzaka, as of 3:30pm Japan time. It has been announced that Hanshin Tigers lefty Kei Igawa will be allowed to pursue a Major League contract via the posting system after several years of requested transfer. Igawa is the 3rd player to be posted in 2006, after Matsuzaka and Yakult Swallows' thirdbaseman Akinori Iwamura.

Igawa is a fine pitcher with a shot at being a very good #2 or #3 pitcher in the Majors. Anyone losing out on Matsuzaka should try to pick him up at a fraction of the cost.
i cant find any details about this guy, but its food for thought :)

[disposablehero]

and an interesting sidenote to the losers in the Matsu bidding...


i cant find any details about this guy, but its food for thought :)
just found some stat lines for this guy and he doesnt look too bad at all. nothing spectacular, but still.

in an average 200 IP - 3.25 era, 1.25 whip, 200 k, 80 bb, 25 HR

probably a pretty good steal at less than a quarter the money Matsu will get. i cant seem to find out how old he is and why he had a down year last year, though.

[LetsGoSohx]

November 13, 2006
GM meetings buzz
By Nick Cafardo, Globe Staff

NAPLES, Fla. -- GMs from both the AL and NL, dressed in flowered tropical bowling shirts, just departed for their bowling tournament down the road. Theo Epstein wore a yellow tropical design and seemed nervous because he hadn't bowled 10-pin for a while, being a Bostonian and used to candlepin like the rest of us.

# The buzz around the meetings, though uncomfirmed, is that J.D. Drew is the player the Red Sox have offered a free-agent contract to. Sox officials did not deny that Drew is the one.

Drew's agent, Scott Boras, and his entourage have arrived in Naples. Epstein told the Globe that he had made a free-agent offer to a player but would not reveal his identity.

# There have been conflicting reports on when the Seibu Lions will hold their press conference to speak on Daisuke Matsuzaka. Japanese reporters here are still saying the press conference will be 8 p.m. (EST) tonight. There are other reports indicating 8 p.m. tomorrow night. We'll try to nail this down as the afternoon goes on.

# Mets GM Omar Minaya remains confident Billerica's Tom Glavine will re-up with the Mets. The terms have been agreed upon and now Glavine must decide between NY and Atlanta.

# The Red Sox today named Gary Tuck as the bullpen coach on their major league staff. Tuck, 52, spent the 2006 season as the major league bench coach for the Florida Marlins. He has 23 years of professional experience as a manager, coach, and catching instructor in the Houston Astros, New York Yankees, Cleveland Indians, and Marlins organizations. Tuck is an old friend of both Terry Francona and pitching coach John Farrell. The move seems to indicate that Al Nipper has been re-assigned or has left the organization.

Tuck joins pitching coach John Farrell, third base coach DeMarlo Hale, hitting coach Dave Magadan, and bench coach Brad Mills on Terry Francona’s 2007 coaching staff. Boston’s first base coaching position has yet to be determined. Bill Haselman and the Red Sox have agreed by mutual decision that he will not return to the coaching staff in 2007. Haselman is currently exploring opportunities both inside and outside of baseball.

Linkage. (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2006/11/the_buzz_around.html)

[HoustonGM]

i cant seem to find out how old he is and why he had a down year last year, though.
A simple google search yields his age: http://www.japaneseballplayers.com/en/player.php?id=igawa - He'll be turning 28 next July. Not that much older than Matsuzaka.

It also doesn't seem like his 2006 was a down year..

[LetsGoSohx]

Update, a big one:


Amid rumors that the Sox bid as high as $50 million for the right to negotiate with Daisuke Matsuzaka, ESPN's Peter Gammons is reporting the Sox submitted a winning bid of $42m. (Gordon Edes, Globe Staff, 3:33 p.m.)

Linkage again. (http://www.boston.com/sports/?p1=GN_Sports)

[disposablehero]

wow, that much is just ridiculous.

if you add that, spread out over his eventual contract, his deal comes out to A-Rod money :eek:

[disposablehero]

A simple google search yields his age: http://www.japaneseballplayers.com/en/player.php?id=igawa - He'll be turning 28 next July. Not that much older than Matsuzaka.

It also doesn't seem like his 2006 was a down year..
ahh, right. my mistake. it's his 2005 campaign.

[disposablehero]

its official, but the amount is unknown for now....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/11/13/boston.bidding/index.html

[Rahul]

42 million is crazy!

this site has as interesting approximation of what Matsuzaka might be worth to the Sox

42 Million?
(http://atlbravesworld.blogspot.com/2006/11/42-million.html)

Anyway, the system used there, I was wondering if it was in any way implemented in Baseball Mogul? I know Clay has quotes from that book in his profile

[Sanji Watsuki]

It is confirmed. The conference says that the BoSox indeed won the bid.

[Red Sox Fan 734]

Oh ya thats what im talking about.
Matsuzaka,Schilling,Beckett,Papelbon,Wakefield. Watch out Yankees.

[HoustonGM]

At $51.1 million. Nuts.

[Sanji Watsuki]

So... if Matsuzaka signs a 12mil/yr contract you're looking at 111.1mil/5yrs pretty much. Very ouch. That is practically A-Rod money. I've been a supporter of Matsuzaka from the beginning, and I don't think he'll bust, but if he does I will laugh. Very hard.

[disposablehero]

At $51.1 million. Nuts.
no doubt. when all is said and done, thats easily $30mil a year. i just dont see how you can pay that for an unproven, youngster. its baffling.

[disposablehero]

So... if Matsuzaka signs a 12mil/yr contract you're looking at 111.1mil/5yrs pretty much. Very ouch. That is practically A-Rod money. I've been a supporter of Matsuzaka from the beginning, and I don't think he'll bust, but if he does I will laugh. Very hard.
from what ive read, Boras is only willing to go 3 years so that he will be due for another contract when he hits his prime. he's looking for $30-$36mil for 3 years. making it $27-$30mil a year.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[SirKodiak]

Could be interesting, if Boros asks for too much, Boston can simply put down an offer he will reject and he goes back to Japan for a year (if he is reposted) or 2 years (when he becomes a free agent), and it costs Boston nothing. He makes like 3mil/yr in Japan.

[disposablehero]

well, if Adam freakin Eaton (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2677728) can get 3/24, Matsuzaka can surely get 5/75!

[disposablehero]

and an interesting sidenote to the losers in the Matsu bidding...


Nothing yet on Matsuzaka, as of 3:30pm Japan time. It has been announced that Hanshin Tigers lefty Kei Igawa will be allowed to pursue a Major League contract via the posting system after several years of requested transfer. Igawa is the 3rd player to be posted in 2006, after Matsuzaka and Yakult Swallows' thirdbaseman Akinori Iwamura.

Igawa is a fine pitcher with a shot at being a very good #2 or #3 pitcher in the Majors. Anyone losing out on Matsuzaka should try to pick him up at a fraction of the cost.
i cant find any details about this guy, but its food for thought :)


just found some stat lines for this guy and he doesnt look too bad at all. nothing spectacular, but still.

in an average 200 IP - 3.25 era, 1.25 whip, 200 k, 80 bb, 25 HR

probably a pretty good steal at less than a quarter the money Matsu will get. i cant seem to find out how old he is and why he had a down year last year, though.
hmmm....http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6213506

[boomboom]

Could be interesting, if Boros asks for too much, Boston can simply put down an offer he will reject and he goes back to Japan for a year (if he is reposted) or 2 years (when he becomes a free agent), and it costs Boston nothing. He makes like 3mil/yr in Japan.

true, but it will still cost them 51.1 million...even if they don't sign him.

[HoustonGM]

true, but it will still cost them 51.1 million...even if they don't sign him.
not true. If they don't sign him, Seibu gives the 51.1 million back

[disposablehero]

hmmm....http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6213506
ahh, how sweet they are (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/wires/11/29/2010.ap.bba.yankees.igawa.5th.ld.writethru.0639/) :rolleyes:

[FRENCHREDSOX]

not true. If they don't sign him, Seibu gives the 51.1 million back

But they will look very very foolish though:eek:

[HoustonGM]

But they will look very very foolish though:eek:
Everyone involved would look foolish.

[FRENCHREDSOX]

Everyone involved would look foolish.

Even Boras has a REAL interest to make this deal work... cos next year it is nt certain that Matzusaka would retain him if he did nt get the deal done with the Sox...;)

[disposablehero]

id love to be a fly on the wall in the MLB and Mets front offices if Seibu kicks back so much that they actually receive less than the Mets bid.

if that happens, i bet this is the last year these particular rules are used.

[FRENCHREDSOX]

id love to be a fly on the wall in the MLB and Mets front offices if Seibu kicks back so much that they actually receive less than the Mets bid.

if that happens, i bet this is the last year these particular rules are used.

The Seibu & Red Sox management now that the MLB have "ruled" will hide any kickbacks so deep that the it will take a team of expert accountants to find it.


It will be in a Seibu "financing a Red Sox Japanese Academy" or "Investing in the Sox insurance policy for Matsuzaka" etc ...

However the problem lies is HOW is Boras asking for & HOW MUCH is he willing to accept for his client ...

[disposablehero]

The Seibu & Red Sox management now that the MLB have "ruled" will hide any kickbacks so deep that the it will take a team of expert accountants to find it.


It will be in a Seibu "financing a Red Sox Japanese Academy" or "Investing in the Sox insurance policy for Matsuzaka" etc ...

However the problem lies is HOW is Boras asking for & HOW MUCH is he willing to accept for his client ...
i dont quite understand what you are saying, but its no secret that the Mariners bid ~14 and paid ~4 for Ichiro, accounting tricks or not.

[FRENCHREDSOX]

i dont quite understand what you are saying, but its no secret that the Mariners bid ~14 and paid ~4 for Ichiro, accounting tricks or not.

The thing is the Mariner deal was accepted - this TIME the MLB (maybe due to the METs/YANKEEs) influence wont accept a 20 mill "kick back" OPENLY;)

[disposablehero]

...this TIME the MLB (maybe due to the METs/YANKEEs) influence wont accept a 20 mill "kick back" OPENLY;)
what gives you that idea?

from what i have read, the only possible move MLB could make is the commish awarding the bid to the Mets for an "unreasonable contract offer".

[FRENCHREDSOX]

what gives you that idea?

from what i have read, the only possible move MLB could make is the commish awarding the bid to the Mets for an "unreasonable contract offer".

which in itself is an INDICATION

[disposablehero]

which in itself is an INDICATION
you have me totally confused.

i guarantee if the Red Sox make a reasonable offer, that's openly subsidized by Seibu, it WILL go through. there's absolutely nothing Bud can do about it.

example:

Red Sox to DM - "we'll give you $60 million over 5 years"
DM to RS - "no thanks. not enough money."
Red Sox to Seibu - "we've made an offer to DM and he has said no. if you want this to work out for everyone involved, you'll help us pay him more."
Seibu to RS - "no problem. how much more will it take?"
RS to S - "indications are that $15 million will do it."
S to RS - "done."
RS to DM - "ok, we've got Seibu to kick in, but this is as far as we go....$75 million for 5 years."
DM to RS - "ok."
Bud Selig to RS/Seibu/DM - "well, im very disappointed in all of you and the way this went down, but there's nothing in the rules that says you cant do that so, congratulations."
(Mets publically outraged? "we would have paid the full $38 million PLUS all of his $75 million salary!)
Bud Selig to press - "there will be changes to the system."

[michaelg123789]

I can't wait to see this guy pitch opening day at Fenway Park :D

[ohms_law]

it is quite a build-up, huh? I'd be willing to bet that he'll be an OK pitcher, but will be unable to come anywhere near the hype that's been generated for him.

[disposablehero]

Boras to the Boston Herald (http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=170733) the other day...


The agent said Major League Baseball’s recent reminder that side deals between ballclubs like the Red Sox and Seibu is not a good thing and that “the integrity of the posting would be flawed” if it were allowed. Boras noted, however, that no rules exist that would prohibit Seibu from paying money to Matsuzaka to help him come to a decision where he would sign with the Red Sox and the Lions collect their $51.11 million.

i read a rumor today that has Boston paying $10 mil per for 5 years, with Seibu kicking in $3 mil per.

i wonder if the Yanks are waiting to see the reaction from Bud before attempting a similar strategy with Igawa?

[FRENCHREDSOX]

Boras to the Boston Herald (http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=170733) the other day...



i read a rumor today that has Boston paying $10 mil per for 5 years, with Seibu kicking in $3 mil per.

i wonder if the Yanks are waiting to see the reaction from Bud before attempting a similar strategy with Igawa?

More than likely,but due to the international ramifications (WBC included) Selig will most probably "ostrich" it this year & get a SET guideline set up for ALL international signings (including the less heralded leagues like Korea,Mexico etc) for 07/08

[disposablehero]

and an interesting sidenote to the losers in the Matsu bidding...


Nothing yet on Matsuzaka, as of 3:30pm Japan time. It has been announced that Hanshin Tigers lefty Kei Igawa will be allowed to pursue a Major League contract via the posting system after several years of requested transfer. Igawa is the 3rd player to be posted in 2006, after Matsuzaka and Yakult Swallows' thirdbaseman Akinori Iwamura.

Igawa is a fine pitcher with a shot at being a very good #2 or #3 pitcher in the Majors. Anyone losing out on Matsuzaka should try to pick him up at a fraction of the cost.
i cant find any details about this guy, but its food for thought :)


just found some stat lines for this guy and he doesnt look too bad at all. nothing spectacular, but still.

in an average 200 IP - 3.25 era, 1.25 whip, 200 k, 80 bb, 25 HR

probably a pretty good steal at less than a quarter the money Matsu will get. i cant seem to find out how old he is and why he had a down year last year, though.
looks like its a done deal....5/$20.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6288114?FSO2&ATT=MA

i cant wait until 2011, when we can look back and compare $18.5mil per Matsuzaka vs $9mil per Igawa :)

this gives the Yanks 3 lefties. i wonder how much they want to contain Ortiz? :rolleyes:

[HoustonGM]

Ortiz isn't even that bad against lefties. The last 3 years, he basically has a full season of at bats vs. them - 606. He's .277/.351/.540 with 39 home runs. It's definitely worse than he is vs. righties, but it's nby no means shabby.

[FRENCHREDSOX]

Good deal for the Yankees btw he is 31+

[HoustonGM]

31+?

[disposablehero]

31+?
im guessing he means, "he is between 31 and 32"

*shrug*

[HoustonGM]

im guessing he means, "he is between 31 and 32"

*shrug*
Except...he's not..he'll be turning 28 next July...

[disposablehero]

Except...he's not..he'll be turning 28 next July...
i know...im just guessing about what he meant and its the only thing i could come up with ;)