Player Performance Inaccurate [Fixed 10.08]

[jgurney]

I play PBP Manager mode, and I've never seen a balk or WP. I realize this is a very small omission (assuming its not in the game), but when the pitcher throws one of those pitches that goes way offscreen, it would be nice to see it go as a WP. Balks are less important, but it would be nice if good base-stealers occasionally caused a nervous pitch to balk.

[TheNamelessPoet]

I agree.

[MrMackie]

WP and balks should definitely be added. There's already a predicted # of balks for a pitcher in a season, so those should be part of the game; additionally, pitchers should have a predicted # of wild pitches as well (maybe instead of hit batters).

By the way, does anyone know if a hit batsman counts as a wild pitch?

[HoustonGM]

WP and balks should definitely be added. There's already a predicted # of balks for a pitcher in a season, so those should be part of the game; additionally, pitchers should have a predicted # of wild pitches as well (maybe instead of hit batters).

By the way, does anyone know if a hit batsman counts as a wild pitch?
No, a hit batter is not a wild patch.

I have seen a wild pitch in play-by-play, but not recently. (I haven't played PBP recently though)

As I said in the pick-off thread, balks and wild pitches are available as stats in Sortable Stats, so they do happen.

[jgurney]

Cool, thank you for the information. I'm sure I'll see them eventually. :)

[InRepair]

Well, they may happen only when you *can't* see them, when you're simming games instead of playing them out.

[HoustonGM]

Yeah....although I HAVE seen wild pitches during play-by-play.

[ohms_law]

I got curious so I output 677 recorded game files and searched:

there were only 12 games that included a balk:


BOTTOM OF THE SIXTH
John Ennis came in to pitch for the Diamondbacks. <--->
Hector Luna singled back through the middle. <--1>
Brian Schneider flied out to left field. <--1>
Hector Luna was caught stealing second. <--->
Bobby Sullivan singled to center. <--1>
John Ennis balked. <-2->
Quinton McCracken flied out to left field. <-2->
0 runs, 2 hits, 0 errors, and 1 left on base.
At the end of the sixth, the game is tied at 3.




BOTTOM OF THE SEVENTH
Joe McEwing came in to play Third Base. <--->
Sam Ramos came in to play Left Field. <--->
Scarborough Green came in to play Right Field. <--->
Preston Wilson grounded to third. <--->
Javier Valentin singled to center. <--1>
Robb Quinlan singled up the middle. <-21>
Wandy Rodriguez balked. <32->
Jimmy Hurst struck out. <32->
Carlos Valderrama pinch hit for Edwin Hurtado. <32->
Carlos Valderrama struck out. <32->
0 runs, 2 hits, 0 errors, and 2 left on base.
At the end of the seventh, San Francisco trails 5 to 2.



BOTTOM OF THE FOURTH
Ramon Martinez singled through the left side. <--1>
Horacio Ramirez balked. <-2->
Randall Simon doubled in the left field gap, scoring a run. <-2->
Shea Hillenbrand grounded to second. <-2->
John Buck flied out to center. <-2->
Gabe Gross struck out. <-2->
1 run, 2 hits, 0 errors, and 1 left on base.
At the end of the fourth, Tampa Bay trails 3 to 1.

but there were 169 games with a wild pitch:

TOP OF THE SIXTH
Corey Koskie singled down the third base line. <--1>
Corey Koskie went for an extra base and reached second. <-2->
Rafael Furcal singled back through the middle, scoring a run. <--1>
The Marlins put on the hit and run.
Matt Treanor flied out to center. <--1>
Leslie Johnston threw a wild pitch. <-2->
Ben Walpin grounded to the shortstop. <-2->
Dwight Frith flied out to left. <-2->
1 run, 2 hits, 0 errors, and 1 left on base.
In the middle of the sixth, Florida leads 3 to 0.


TOP OF THE EIGHTH
Francisco Rodriguez came in to pitch for the Nationals. <--->
Javier Valentin walked. <--1>
Francisco Rodriguez threw a wild pitch. <-2->
Robb Quinlan popped up to short. <-2->
Marco Scutaro grounded to the shortstop. <-2->
Brian Giles pinch hit for Jim Mann. <-2->
Brian Giles singled to left field, scoring a run. <--1>
Delino DeShields struck out. <--1>
1 run, 1 hit, 0 errors, and 1 left on base.
In the middle of the eighth, San Francisco trails 7 to 5.



BOTTOM OF THE FIFTH
Tommy Park grounded to third. <--->
Bakin Ogawa walked. <--1>
The Nationals put on the hit and run.
Brian Webb threw a wild pitch. <-2->
Mark Lewis grounded to short. <-2->
Ryan Church flied out to center. <-2->
0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors, and 1 left on base.
At the end of the fifth, Washington trails 3 to 2.

So, the answer to the original post is a resounding "they do occur"
:)

no idea what the actual rates of balks or wild pitches is in MLB, so I can't speak to the rate of occurance in baseball mogul. Both incidenses are rare though, as they probably should be. Balk's are aparently exceedingly rare, but they are awfully rare in real baseball as well so it seems ok to me.

[TheJay]

no idea what the actual rates of balks or wild pitches is in MLB, so I can't speak to the rate of occurance in baseball mogul. Both incidenses are rare though, as they probably should be. Balk's are aparently exceedingly rare, but they are awfully rare in real baseball as well so it seems ok to me.



YEAR G BALKS WP G/BALK G/WP
2001 2429 151 1484 16.08 1.64
2002 2426 161 1494 15.07 1.62
2003 2430 158 1546 15.38 1.57
2004 2428 157 1478 15.46 1.64
2005 2431* 160 1395 15.19 1.74
TOTAL 12144 787 7397 15.43 1.64

*(HOU & CIN tied on 6-30)
Sources: ESPN Sortable Stats and Retrosheet

So, over the past five seasons, balks have occurred at a rate of 1 every 15.43 games. Wild pitches have occurred at a rate of 1 every 1.64 games.

I don't know how many games had multiple of each event in real life, so it's hard to compare directly to ohms_law's data but it appears that 12 balks in 667 games is significantly under the real life rate. It would seem that wild pitches were also somewhat under the real life rate in ohms_law's data.

[ohms_law]

yea, knowing that I think that we can say that the rates of balk's and wild pitches are way, way low...

[Clay Dreslough]

Good thread. As you can see, there are balks and WPs, but not at the right rates. I found the bug for balks -- most pitchers average less than 1 balk per season, which was getting rounded to zero. WP is a similar issue that I'm fixing.

Clay

[MatsFan5]

i would sayi see an average of 1 or 2 wild pitches a game, but ive never seen a balk

[jgurney]

Thank you, Clay. I really didn't think it was a bug, but I'm happy to see your quick action to fix it. I really appreciate the amazing amount of post-release support for this game.

[TheNamelessPoet]

i would sayi see an average of 1 or 2 wild pitches a game, but ive never seen a balk
It actually is not called as much as it should be (balks). Altho some guys call it too much many more of them don't call it enough.
Keep up the good work Clay!!!

[RAW]

Player version 9.45 (and all previous versions). In one pitch, pbp mode over ten seasons I have never had a pitcher throw a wild pitch, pick off a runner, commit a balk or have a catcher commit a passed ball. I have seen several mentions of these in postings, so, I assume these occur. In fact, in the written pbp of some sim games it has occured, but never while I'm playing with my team against a computer controlled team. My question is if this is standard, or just unique to my games?

[ohms_law]

well, we were talking about this not too long ago. I know that there was some adjustment to the occurance of some of these incidences reacently (9.43?), but I don't think anyone has looked as how often they occur since then.

If you could post some numbers on their actual rate of occurance now, it would be helpfull.

[HoustonGM]

I think the rate that these occur during SIMULATION should be fine, as I think some people have tested that. However, if they are indeed not occuring in PBP, that should be looked into.

[RAW]

As I said in my original post, in one pitch play by play mode, which I play most often, it has never happen to me or against me. In pitch by pitch mode, same thing, but I rarely play in this mode.

[ghettostar]

It has also never happened in my 2 seasons of pbp mode.

[jgurney]

These things happen very rarely in Manager Mode games. In about 500 games, I have only seen 1 pick off and 1 defensive indifference (yet zero WPs, PBs or balks).

Here is a screenshot of the defensive indifference (totally shocked me to get it the other day):

[ohms_law]

I think the rate that these occur during SIMULATION should be fine, as I think some people have tested that. However, if they are indeed not occuring in PBP, that should be looked into.

Here's what Clay said:

FYI, the code that determines what happens in Play-By-Play is the same as when simming. So I'm inclined to think this is just small sample size.

Either of the following would be helpful:

1) Sim a season, or part of a season. Look through the box scores and tally up all the results on the first at bat against a reliever.

2) Do the same but with about 10 PBP games. Be sure to write down EVERY result. Not just the homers.

:)
In this thread: http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthread.php?t=119283
different subject, but it's still applicable.

As I said above, I do know that Balks and Wild Pitches, at least, were reacently fixed (Balks & Wild Pitches? [Fixed 9.44] (http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthread.php?t=116113)). If they need to be adjusted further, along with other events, then someone needs to post the rate that each event is occuring during a season. Ensure that your game is saving every game and simulate a season. In League -> Options, export all the saved games. Open your game folder, and use windows search feature to search through the game recap's for the words "balk", "Wild pitch", "passed ball", "picked off", etc... and post here with the results of each.

[Brewersfan]

In my experience I have played well over 100 games in 1 pitch mode. I have NEVER seen a passed ball,pickoff,balk,wild pitch or deffensive indifference.

[ohms_law]

Balks and Wild Pitches were fixed in an early version of 9.44, so you'll need to use 9.45 to notice any difference. If you're not using 9.45, you probably wouldn't see either a balk or a wild pitch ever.

[jgurney]

I have only anecdotal evidence since I haven't saved my game recaps, but I think there is something in the simulation code that must be different between from the codes used in simmed, but unplayed games. My sample size is getting rather large now - over 550 Manager Mode (i.e., 1 Pitch Mode/Coach Mode) games. The unplayed simmed games definitely produce realistic numbers of balks, WPs, etc. They just occur super infrequently in Manager Mode games.

I will start of log of game recaps for a season like Ohm suggested, but just wanted to confirm that balks and WPs show up in the game recaps (I saw the defensive indifference did).

[RAW]

Intentional walks and sacrifice bunts are basic strategies in baseball, yet, computer controlled teams never, and I mean never, issue intentional walks when playing in play by play, one pitch mode. As to sacrifice bunts, computer control teams often sacrifice when behind by two or more runs in the late innings, often when behind by four or more runs. Something you would never see in real life. Seems to me as if the AI needs to be tweaked on both these strategies.

[John DiFool]

They sacrifice with one out a lot too.

[ohms_law]

Intentional walks and sacrifice bunts are basic strategies in baseball, yet, computer controlled teams never, and I mean never, issue intentional walks when playing in play by play, one pitch mode.
That's simply untrue. The AI probably doesn't use intentional walks nearly as often as it should, but it does use them.

[beerchaser]

I don't think I've ever seen any of my guys get issued an intentional walk when playing in Manager mode. Pitched around occasionally, yes, but never an outright intentional walk.

[ohms_law]

Well, it falls under the same category as balks, hit by pitch, wild pitches, defensive indifference, etc... Intentional walks do occur. I'm sure that their rate of occurance probably does need to be looked at, just as all of the above needed and still need attention. To simply say that the game flat out never issues an intentional walk is just wrong, though.

[jonnymo]

...computer controlled teams never, and I mean never, issue intentional walks when playing in play by play, one pitch mode.
RAW, what does your Leaders>Intentional BB look like? They are definitely occurring (see below).


Well, it falls under the same category as balks, hit by pitch, wild pitches, defensive indifference, etc.
During the discussion on the similar issues that Ohms mentioned, Clay has said that the logic for PBP is the same as for non-PBP. If you believe that they occur less during PBP, then that sounds like it ought to be a bug report.

[ohms_law]

There, much better. Everything is all in one place now (and the correct place, at that!).
:)

[HoustonGM]

jonnymo, the screenshot doesn't prove anything. The game uses them in the simulation, but I've never seen it in pbp...

[ohms_law]

well, it certainly shows how little the AI uses IBB's. with the league leader at ~17 IBB in 30 or so games, you would need to watch alot of PBP ball before seeing one in game.

[HoustonGM]

well, it certainly shows how little the AI uses IBB's. with the league leader at ~17 IBB in 30 or so games, you would need to watch alot of PBP ball before seeing one in game.
I played half a season and never saw one. Of course, it could just be the luck of the draw. If anybody HAS seen an IBB in PBP, post please :).


Oh, and its more like 90 or so games. July 23rd.

[jgurney]

I suspect it can happen in Manager Mode/PBP, but I've never seen it. I'm compiling a season's worth of Manager Mode match reports to show there are very few (too few) of these events happening. Unfortunately, it's going to take forever to get a big enough sample size to show it is some kind of bug. I have played more than 5 full seasons of Manager Mode without an intentional walk, but I didn't keep all of the match reports so it's possible I did get some and just missed it.

[RAW]

As I said in my original post..intentional walks have NEVER occured by a computer controlled team aginst my team and I have played ten season, all in manager, play by play, one pitch mode. My leader board shows many players with intentional walks issued to them..but they never are issued to my players during the play of the game. I do get quite a few hit by pitches, but, also, never a balk for or against me, and I can only recall one wild pitch and one pick off. Now than I'm on version 9.45, I do occasionally have players advance by defensive indifference. Earlier, I reduced the number of hit by pitched ball, because I felt that was occuring too frequently.

[midwestjw]

I play PBP Manager mode, and I've never seen a balk or WP. I realize this is a very small omission (assuming its not in the game), but when the pitcher throws one of those pitches that goes way offscreen, it would be nice to see it go as a WP. Balks are less important, but it would be nice if good base-stealers occasionally caused a nervous pitch to balk.

I agree as well, I have never seen any of these.

[jonnymo]

jonnymo, the screenshot doesn't prove anything. The game uses them in the simulation, but I've never seen it in pbp...
Sure it does. Before Ohms moved it, this was posted in the "Suggestions and AI" forum. My point to RAW was merely that this is not a deficiency of the AI, but rather a potential bug in PBP mode. As we can see from the screenshot, the AI does dispense intentional walks.

[HoustonGM]

Sure it does. Before Ohms moved it, this was posted in the "Suggestions and AI" forum. My point to RAW was merely that this is not a deficiency of the AI, but rather a potential bug in PBP mode. As we can see from the screenshot, the AI does dispense intentional walks.
I don't think anybody was ever saying that the AI never intentionally walks anyone. The issue's always bene whether or not it happens IN PBP.

[RAW]

HoustonGM - Exactly. Of course, the AI issues intentional walks, they are listed in the Leaders section...but..never does the AI issue an intentional walk in a game in pbp mode. Same is true for balks, wild pitches, pass balls, and, like jonnymo says, its probably a bug in pbp mode. We are all in agreement here.

[Rongar]

Player version 9.45 (and all previous versions). In one pitch, pbp mode over ten seasons I have never had a pitcher throw a wild pitch, pick off a runner, commit a balk or have a catcher commit a passed ball. I have seen several mentions of these in postings, so, I assume these occur. In fact, in the written pbp of some sim games it has occured, but never while I'm playing with my team against a computer controlled team. My question is if this is standard, or just unique to my games?

In PBP in PLAYER mode, i.e. pitch by pitch I have seen all these things come to pass, except the balk, and, given my memory, and the number of games I have played in this mode, even the balk could have happened, but I've forgotten

[Rongar]

HoustonGM - Exactly. Of course, the AI issues intentional walks, they are listed in the Leaders section...but..never does the AI issue an intentional walk in a game in pbp mode. Same is true for balks, wild pitches, pass balls, and, like jonnymo says, its probably a bug in pbp mode. We are all in agreement here.

I have just seen the debate on IBBs...again, in pitch-by-pitch my batters have often received 4 balls in succession...I don't necessarily regard these as issued walks, as the AI can be very wild, sometimes, too, I pridefully point out, again, that when batting in pitch-by-pitch, I have my hitters "sit" on the AI pitcher's highest rated pitch,(usually the fastball) that is, I select the expected pitch, then place my cursor in the exact centre of the plate, my theory being that if my "bat" swings thro the centre for every pitch, sooner or later, it's bound to encounter a ball in that centre. The unexpected result of my strategy is that, for some reason, the AI misses the plate, more often
than not, with his best pitches, thus having to rely on his lesser-rated pitches.

The pitcher I like best tho, is the AI who has other than the heat as his "best" pitch...when a change-up artist,say, or a slider merchant issues that 3rd ball with his specialty, then I select his fast ball to hit, on the assumption, as SirK advises in his GUIDE TO PITCHES, that, as a pitcher, your best bet when you must throw a strike, is to hurl the one that's least likely to miss - the fastball...I've had many happy at bats that way!

I tell you guys, we pitch-by-pitch players have more fun than most...:)

[Rongar]

RAW, what does your Leaders>Intentional BB look like? They are definitely occurring (see below).


During the discussion on the similar issues that Ohms mentioned, Clay has said that the logic for PBP is the same as for non-PBP. If you believe that they occur less during PBP, then that sounds like it ought to be a bug report.

Jonnymo, in what edition of Mogul is your image (of IBB issuers)from? I could find no such category in BM7

[HoustonGM]

Jonnymo, in what edition of Mogul is your image (of IBB issuers)from? I could find no such category in BM7
Go to the League Leaders page and click one of the headings. You'll find Intentional Walks there.

[SirKodiak]

Just for frequency reference:
(stats from NL 2005)
Pick Offs: 103 (about 20% at 2B)
Balks: 87
Wild Pitches: 746
Passed Balls: 149
Catcher Interference: 8
IBB: 766
Defensive Indifference: 95

[Rongar]

Go to the League Leaders page and click one of the headings. You'll find Intentional Walks there.
Jonnymo, Houston, I stand corrected...I usually click on the appropriate sub-menu (most steals; strikeouts; shutouts; etc) while in the "Standings" menu after each game...this sub-menu has a blue background, and is the one that I searched for IBB without success.

This morning, however, whilst idly clicking around the menus I came across one that seemed more copious than usual, of of a beige colour...and there, sure enough was a list of recipients of issued walks...I was probably
in the "Leader" menu without realising it.

My apologies, Jonnymo, for my duff gen.:o

[RAW]

Ah, ronger plays pitch by pitch, while I only play one pitch mode. I would guess that it (intentional walks) may happen in pitch by pitch mode, but none of these situations (intentional walks, balks, wild pitches, pass balls) happens in one pitch mode, although, obviously, some of my hitters are walked, just no indication whether its intentional or not.

[ohms_law]

I just don't buy that, though. Not that I think that your lying or anything, but the fact is that the game uses the exact same code to decide what happens during a game regardless of what mode you're in.

Anyway, Clay did say earlier that there was a rounding issue with balks that caused the number of occurances to be 0. Everything else is probably related is all. This is posted here now, and there are some good points, so i'm sure the Clay will take a look at the problem when he get's a chance.

[RAW]

Well, ohms, you're probably right, however, I'm now in my 10th season all in manager mode and about 90% in one pitch (ever since it was introduced earlier this year), and, with my hand firmly placed on my bible (the Sporting News), I have never had a balk, wild pitch, pass ball or intentional walk occur by a AI controlled team, nor has a balk, wild pitch or pass ball occured to my controlled team. I do, however, issue intentional walks when I feel strategy calls for it.

[DeViLzzz2006]

I have had them recently and I have only started going through one season .... I do see balks and wild pitches .... heck try having Nolan Ryan come off the disabled list and pitch. He was healthy coming off but I guess he wasn't ready to pitch .... he was WILD !!!!!!!!!

[HoustonGM]

Is that in Manager mode?

[echrisl]

Are you seeing scores like that all the time, or just in this case? Quite the high scorer at any rate. I'm curious, how were the pitchers rated?

[ohms_law]

I was thinking of creating a thread about this myself. What I noticed was Home runs. Someone seems to be getting more than 60 Homers a season, every season. There are too many 40+ homer players as well.

[ohms_law]

Yup, I've been noticing the similar behavior.

[emgo76ers]

Straight out of the gate, in my first season, virtually simulating the entire season, David Ortiz hit 80 HR's and had 178 RBI. I don't know if this is a bug or not, but jeez.

Also, salary negotiation is quite messed up. The figure is in the $10,000's but once you move the arrow up or down it goes to aproximately $50 mil every time.

Player ratings are quite varied and pretty questionable. Papelbon should be a starter, there's no Daisuke Matsuzaka, prospects and minor leaguers are quite limited (though I'm not sure the legal aspects of players that haven't played in the ML's yet). My game froze in the off-season re-signing process.

As I don't have the game open right in front of me, these are the only things I can think of off hand.

[Red Sox Fan 734]

Straight out of the gate, in my first season, virtually simulating the entire season, David Ortiz hit 80 HR's and had 178 RBI.

Thats what im talking about!

[Jam391]

did u change the simulation seetings or tweak ratings or anything like that

[Jam391]

ALso with the roster there are no updates with Dice-K and papelbon, if you would read HoustonGMs post (I dont know where it is but I saw it before) he explained the 2007 roster issues how they weren't fully made yet

[drastic83]

I noticed the exploding stats in my first season as well. Pujols had 77 homers with 189 RBI's and Thome had 71 homers with 212 RBI's!!! Those steroid cheating bastards! ;)

[Jam391]

I noticed the exploding stats in my first season as well. Pujols had 77 homers with 189 RBI's and Thome had 71 homers with 212 RBI's!!! Those steroid cheating bastards! ;)

Thome is clean buddy. He's on the Babe Ruth diet, hotdogs

[Jam391]

Yea I actually got whack stats.Like Travis Hafner. Also Randy Johnson had a comeback year

[DIM]

1) The amount of at-bats some of these guys are getting in the regular season are way too high, shattering the previous record of 705.

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/5236/toomanysingleseasonatbafb3.png

2) Probably been mentioned before, but in PBP, it always says "No At-Bats versus (Pitcher Name) in (Year Name)", not the correct amount of At-Bats.

[Red Sox Fan 734]

Really, ive had it show real stats. It just doesnt update when in the game.

[BTerran]

I don't actually have the beta, but looking at those screenshots I noticed another theme:

None of them have a single IBB. Naturally guys like Pujols and Ortiz, especially if they're on course to breaking Bonds' record, should get a free pass from the opposing pitchers every now and then. I don't know if this is a matter of the game counting IBBs as a regular base on balls or if it's a problem with pitchers never opting to use them.

[ohms_law]

Merged

merged

[ohms_law]

I don't actually have the beta, but looking at those screenshots I noticed another theme:

None of them have a single IBB. Naturally guys like Pujols and Ortiz, especially if they're on course to be breaking Bonds' record, should just get a free pass from the opposing pitchers every now and then. I don't know if this is a matter of the game counting IBBs and a regular base on balls or if it's a problem with pitchers never opting to use them.

Good point, but until the ratings and rosters are fixed in general, this issue can probably wait.

[metroyanks1]

Not sure it's a bug though, but it's sure nice to see your batters in the lineup each hit at least one homer. In this interleague game, the Yankees played the Astros in Houston and all the Yankee batters (1-8) hit at least one Home Run. :)


New York Yankees at Houston Astros
June 10, 2007

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 + R H E
Yankees (NYY) 1 0 0 4 4 4 0 1 8 22 24 0
Astros (HOU) 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 3 10 0

NEW YORK ab h bb r hr bi k sb avg
J. Damon (CF) 6 1 0 1 1 3 0 0 .309
D. Jeter (SS) 6 4 0 5 1 2 0 1 .322
A. Rodriguez (3B) 5 3 1 2 2 4 0 0 .269
B. Abreu (RF) 6 5 0 3 2 3 1 0 .305
J. Giambi (1B) 5 2 1 3 1 1 2 0 .256
H. Matsui (LF) 4 2 2 3 2 4 2 0 .316
J. Posada (C) 6 2 0 2 1 1 2 0 .229
R. Cano (2B) 6 3 0 2 1 3 0 0 .371
A. Pettitte (P) 4 1 0 1 0 0 2 0 .286
C. Britton (P) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
M. Cabrera (P) 2 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 .333
K. Farnsworth (P) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
TOTALS 50 24 4 22 11 21 10 1

HR: J. Posada (13), J. Giambi (24), A. Rodriguez 2 (14), D. Jeter (3), H. Matsui 2 (14), J. Damon (15), B. Abreu 2 (12), R. Cano (6)

NEW YORK ip h bb hr r er k pit ERA
A. Pettitte 6.2 8 5 0 2 2 6 123 4.54
C. Britton 1.1 0 1 0 0 0 2 18 2.90
K. Farnsworth 1.0 2 1 0 1 1 0 23 6.38
TOTALS 9.0 10 7 0 3 3 8 164

HOUSTON ab h bb r hr bi k sb avg
C. Jimerson (CF) 5 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 .275
M. Loretta (2B) 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .303
C. Burke (LF) 4 3 1 2 0 1 1 1 .301
L. Berkman (1B) 4 3 1 0 0 2 0 0 .335
M. Ensberg (3B) 2 0 3 0 0 0 1 0 .271
J. Lane (RF) 4 0 1 0 0 0 2 0 .226
A. Everett (SS) 4 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 .234
B. Ausmus (C) 4 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 .254
R. Oswalt (P) 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 .105
F. Nieve (P) 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 .250
C. Sampson (P) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
T. Miller (P) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
L. Scott (P) 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 .304
D. Borkowski (P) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .750
M. Lamb (P) 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 .259
C. Qualls (P) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
D. Wheeler (P) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
W. Rodriguez (P) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .167
TOTALS 35 10 7 3 0 3 8 1

2B: L. Berkman (9), C. Burke (14)

HOUSTON ip h bb hr r er k pit ERA
R. Oswalt 3.1 5 2 2 5 5 4 63 6.67
F. Nieve 1.0 4 0 3 4 4 0 28 9.10
C. Sampson 0.2 4 0 3 4 4 0 17 5.88
T. Miller 1.0 0 1 0 0 0 3 23 5.65
D. Borkowski 2.0 2 1 0 1 1 2 33 7.86
C. Qualls 0.2 4 0 1 4 4 0 24 3.51
D. Wheeler 0.0 4 0 2 4 4 0 26 4.13
W. Rodriguez 0.1 1 0 0 0 0 1 8 4.81
TOTALS 9.0 24 4 11 22 22 10 222

WP: A. Pettitte (8-4)
LP: R. Oswalt (2-5)

Temperature: 70F
Wind: 3 MPH (out to left)
Attendance: 0
Time: 4:03

[RunningCatcher]

I've played a lot of games with the beta and noticed when I hang fat pitches the AI will punish me with hrs and bhs. In 2K7 I could get away with being more sloppy. Anyone else notice this?

[tguerr16]

Pitchers throwing 100+ and they are striking out a ton of batters.

Don't know if anyone else has seen this, but pitchers are getting a lot of hits too in my games. I've had multiple games w/pithcers going 2-3 and 3-3.

So far though I love the game!!

[dalto922]

I have had that too. I played a 15-inning game in my first game of the 2007 season in PbP, and of the 107 batters that came up, 46 struck out, each team 23 times!

Also, pitchers with a 79 rating for power were throwing 95 mph, 88 rating was 100 mph and 99 rating was 106mph!

[ohms_law]

FYI: the actual pitch velocities that are reported are purely cosmetic, although they should still make sense. What really matters is the results (SO, BB, H, etc...). The Striking out a bunch of batters portion is a real game mechanic problem, but with the ratings system problems that the game currently has, it may be a secondary effect rather than a real problem.

[hoosiergoody]

When I view each of the leaders categories, under sac hits I only see players from my team, yet I have "both leagues" as the selection

[ohms_law]

Things seem generally improved regarding performances in general now. However, I think that there needs to be some more tweaks done. If anyone has any examples or anything, please post.

Here's my all time leader board for home runs, from a sim started in 1953, up to 1975:

[Wassit3]

I was thinking of creating a thread about this myself. What I noticed was Home runs. Someone seems to be getting more than 60 Homers a season, every season. There are too many 40+ homer players as well.

did you uncheck the secret Giambi Juice setting? lol

[ohms_law]

lol
nope.
:)

[Mickademus]

OK, I simmed the 2007 season with the Tigers and found no real oddities. The only thing that stood out was few IBB's as pointed out above, Hafner led the league with 5. The highest HR total was Monroe with 32 and I don't think that's out of line. The scores were not a whole lot different than 2007. The contract signing an negotiations worked well, I never experienced any problems. After checking the Leaders I see Andruw Jones with 62 homers is the highest and Joe Mauer with a .361 BA is highest.

[ohms_law]

That's about what I'm seeing as well. Everything seems about right, except there's slightly too much power and contact, and very few intentional walks.

...Now that I think about it, it's possible that the intentional walks aspect is affecting the hitting. If no one tends to ever get intentionally walked, the good hitters could be creaming certain pitchers.

[mr3856a]

I still think there are way way waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many injuries. Seems like half my roster is on the DL.

[ohms_law]

I never seem to see any real trouble with injuries. Have you adjusted the frequency or severity in league editor at all? Also, what sorts of players are getting hurt? Do they all have random health ratings, or do they seem to fall into a certain range? How long are they getting hurt for; days, weeks, months?

[mr3856a]

I never seem to see any real trouble with injuries. Have you adjusted the frequency or severity in league editor at all? Also, what sorts of players are getting hurt? Do they all have random health ratings, or do they seem to fall into a certain range? How long are they getting hurt for; days, weeks, months?

Well generally in past versions of the game I've just dropped the frequency and length in the league editor 20 points each. They are generally players at or below 80 in health, but the real problem is they seem to drop like flies. At one point 4 of my 5 starters were out 14 days or more and several relievers were out 3/4/5/6 days, stuff like that. It just seemed like it was cumulatively excessive, but as I said, the fix is easy enough in league editor. I was just curious if anyone else had experienced anything similar.

[ohms_law]

Well, that sort of explains some of it. An 80 rating in anything is generally considered "league average", in my experience. So, you're probably hanging on to guys too long. (their too old)

[bmoseley07]

I've had Brandon Webb and Randy Johnson not be able to get through the 6th inning because by the 5th inning they're up to 100 pitches already.

Webb pitched 5 innings giving up 7 hits and 2 runs, while Johnson 5 innings, 6 hits, 4 runs. Just seems a bit odd that two of the top pitchers can't get past the 5th inning. This is in PBP mode by the way.

I'll continue testing to see if this is just a fluke, but I don't think it is.

[Wassit3]

did you see johnson pitch last year???

[PDog]

I think this have been answer but I report everything I find.Everyone on my team has AT LEAST 50 HR (that is the lowest on my team) I'm in 2019 and it been like that every year.

[rockiesfan4ever]

I had 2B Donnie Murphy hit 94 one year

[Wassit3]

Im getting really high homer numbers as well

[dolfanar]

Has anyone been tracking appearances by closers in historical sims? In 9.45 most closers would only appear in like 30-40 games prior to 1982 or so.

[FRENCHREDSOX]

That's about what I'm seeing as well. Everything seems about right, except there's slightly too much power and contact, and very few intentional walks.

...Now that I think about it, it's possible that the intentional walks aspect is affecting the hitting. If no one tends to ever get intentionally walked, the good hitters could be creaming certain pitchers.

IBBs are real low - BONDS IBB Season total for 07 & 08 equals what HE GETS in 1 week IRL! (15 combined)

[drastic83]

Intentional walks are very very few. Too few. At the end of my first year, the national league leader for intentional walks was Mark DeRosa with 5.

[Cthon]

See attached screen. Furthermore, the score for the April 9 game was 116 to 38. I've also attached the recap. The problem stems from almost every batter being walked. This was a new game started for 9.70.

[Begonias]

Had same problem. First month of 1958 season running SF Giants, had things like SP Al Worthington being intentionally walked 32 times. One player was hitting .124, but had nonetheless been IW 131 times in the first month. Five hitters had 400+ walks in first month. (WinXP MCE)

[FRENCHREDSOX]

Got the same in 1960's sim with scores hitting the high 50's & 60's & certain batters getting 7 or 8 IBBs per game...will add a screenshot as I will try a 70's sim..

[ohms_law]

Looks like the attempted fix for never getting IBBs went just a tad bit too far...
lol

Actually, I'm seeing too much offense in general, all over the place. It's not just too many IBBs, thats for sure. Batting averages are all up, after you start simulating.

I'd be extremely careful in attempting to fix this though. With the ratings still off, and whatnot, it may not be the sim engine that is the whole problem. I'm testing out performances from players loaded from Lahman now, to try to isolate the problem between the rosters and the ratings.

[ohms_law]

Oops...
lol

[dalto922]

Hello. I just downloaded and started playing the 2007 PBP season with the Houston Astros. Again in 9.70, the strikeouts were way to high. In the only 63 batters that came up for both teams, 25 of them struck out. Oswalt and Zambrano were on fire. Also, power ratings for pitchers is not in sync with the speed of their pitchers. Zambrano has a 93 power rating, and consistently thre 100 mile an hour fastballs. Also, the 2007 calendar is incorrect. The season starts on Tuesday, April 5th, but this year the 5th is a Thursday, not a Tuesday.

Other than thatm the game looks great. I can't say I really like the unrealistic ball path on the simulated field, but it won't kill me. Any idea when the final version will be coming out?

[waltwa]

i played 2 games and in GM mode never saw anything but a walk. I went to the Finish game button and then saw the scores. 23-1 and 78-0.

[eecheerow]

I don't sim at all, but noticed today in my first game since the update during PBP, that I had a lot of home runs. Now granted, I was playing the Royals but 6 runs scored and 5 of those Home Runs, Griffey (Cincy offered him back to me) went 3/4 with 3 Home Runs which has been unusual before the update. I'll keep an eye on the offense in my next few games.

[bigpapi]

I just simmed a couple games and I scored -3 runs in one game and -23 in the next!

[YOUKILIS20]

pretty good first month offensively, can't say the same for my pitching staff

[firechief]

I thought that I saw this already posted, but I can't find it to be sure.
The scores in some, but not all, of the games are way out of wack. 133 to 2? 79 to 65? These are from the '94 season using real players. In one game Pedro Martinez walked the first 8 batters he faced, and then gave up a double to the pitcher.
Also the note on the righthand side that lists the accumulated season stats, particularly RF and RA, was also wildly out of sync with the totals. In the month of May, the Expos scored 6,573 runs and gave up 5,934. Even with the inflated scores, the totals didn't add up.
Dave.

[Wassit3]

133 to 2??? what teams where playing the yankees vs. the bad news bears? lol

[damonrusst]

Couldnt' find the original thread on this but I'm still getting the ridiculously high scores but only in the first month (I simmed an entire season). I've attached screenshots from April and may. May is typical of the rest of the season. In April, most games had 40-60 walks per team. In May and beyond it was hard to find a game with more than one or two walks in it.

It also occasionally had a mark on the display that made it look like a negative score.

[damonrusst]

also the box scores in the games with the negative scores don't display a full game. Scores stop after the 2nd or 3rd inning

[damonrusst]

had normal scores in year 2 with normal walk counts

[waltwa]

I have platyed about 10 games in total. the number of walks in each game easily exceeds 20 and the scores are all like 20-4

[PanzerAce]

Actually, in one game that I simulated, I won 126 to 3. There was a total of 60 walks in the game.

[PadresFan104]

Yep, seeing this too. Started with the 1980 phillies and in the first inning of the first game against the Padres, Randy Johnson walked 7 of the first 9 batters.

[damonrusst]

still getting this in 9.72, since I took this photo, it took him 48 runs to get out of the first inning with only one out. My pitcher let in three runs but only one walk, His ratings were all at least above mid 60s but this is the Astros opening day starter who's only got 43 control and 25 movement with pitch ratings all in 30s. Seems unlikely.

[damonrusst]

Here's my first month sim in 9.72, note high scores and negative scores again. Still happening. Sorry if this has already been posted. Walks are still probably the issue.

[damonrusst]

This seemed to stop again after the first month with scores normalizing and no longer negative for rest of year. I'm playing again starting in 1969 with expos, started this game fresh with 9.72

[damonrusst]

Just noticed this happened though. I played myself last 6 games of season. Didn't show that on sched until after game. Good news is I won... and lost. When you click these games for a box score it says none was recorded.

[damonrusst]

I had this too. This list continues scrolling for a long time. There was literally a no hitter or perfect game every day of the season. I also like Lemaster striking out 27 in one game. Roger who?

[Myrthynn]

I'm seeing this too, I have a pitcher who walked over 200 batters in 1.2 innings pitched.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j75/Myrthynn/BB2K8-1.jpg

[Myrthynn]

Note some of the scores below. I really like April 19th where I lost 102 to -60
:confused: :) :D


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j75/Myrthynn/BB2K8-2.jpg

[Myrthynn]

I have a pitcher who is listed as having thrown 3 no hitters, despite the fact he not only never started a single game, he's only pitched a total of 8.1 innings.



And he has an ERA of 481.68
:cool:

[hoosiergoody]

In 9.72 I see many players for my team with Sac Hits, and only one other player in MLB with a sac hit through half of the season...

[hoosiergoody]

I tried to update it from 9.61 to 9.72 w/o starting a new thread, but it didn't work... help! Once done, this thread can be deleted- I don't mind losing one from my post count

[ohms_law]

Yea, it's the way that the numbers are interpreted into ratings when the game loads the players.

[tdk1984]

I just had a game with a 116-110 score. Since I don't think this is supposed to be basketball ;) , I think there is something wrong with this picture. I'd show a photo of the boxscore as there are numerous things wrong, but when I click on the boxscore, it shows up in my internet browser window and I have no clue how to post it on here.

Edit: Oops, I meant version 9.72.

[ohms_law]

Look up!
:)

[redsoxnation]

Not sure if this has been brought up but I played the Red Sox as the 2007 default roster was and won 40 lost 122. I got mad and traded all the best players to my team and the next season didnt win more than 40 games. Also...Please put Daisuke Matsusaka :(

[tdk1984]

Look up!
:)

Yeah, I had started a new thread about it and it was moved in here. My mistake...

[ohms_law]

Yeah, I had started a new thread about it and it was moved in here. My mistake...

Yup, I moved it here. I just wanted to be sure that you saw that there were now posts above yours is all. Don't worry about the post not being in this thread to begin with though. Everyone does it, and I fix 'em. No big deal.

[dingus4ever]

Josh Towers Wins the cy young?

Rookie relief pitcher throws a no hitter

[carload]

If Josh got the run support to go 23-9, I don't think it's so odd that he could win the Cy Young. But I'd sure like to see the box score of the 27-endurance pitcher who managed a no-hitter.

[dingus4ever]

Yeah same here lemme look *prays I can find*

Nope none :(

[ohms_law]

The CY Young/No titter issue is really just a symptom of the overall problem. Namely, the results of games being simmed are way off right now. Most likely, everything in this thread is also just a symptom of the ratings issues in general. Once the stats -> ratings conversion is correct, all of this stuff in this thread will more than likely fix itself.

[duckfan127]

-84 runs?

[ohms_law]

I finally managed to view your box score.

1) please keep all the beta comments/feedback here, in the beta forum.

2) specifically to answer the question you asked, -84 runs happens because there are simply too many runs being scored. The runs field is rolling over. I'm fairly certain that internally, Mogul stores the number of runs scored by each team in each game as a byte. That means that the value goes from 0-255. Score more than 255 runs, and the value rolls over to 0 (or becomes pure garbage (random), depending on the compiler). The reason that you're seeing so many runs in one game is detailed throughout this thread.

[dalto922]

I played a game of 9.72 in PBP mode, and I am still getting an inordinate amount of strikeouts. 11 inning game, 83 batters up, 32 strikeouts. This has happened in each of the versions. Also, pitchers still throw way too hard. Mark Prior (power 97) threw 100-103 pitches all day. I can't see buying this game if it's going to be like that.

[ohms_law]

Also, pitchers still throw way too hard. Mark Prior (power 97) threw 100-103 pitches all day.
Note that pitch velocities aren't actually meaningful in Mogul. Their simply a little color added to the game descriptions, is all. Clay tinkered with them some late last year though, and there's a thread about it located here: Pitch Velocities (http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthread.php?t=118930&highlight=velocity)


I can't see buying this game if it's going to be like that.
Keep in mind that this is an early (well, mid-life) Beta product. Beta in this sense actually means unfinished, it's not a Google/Microsoft/dotcom "hey, we made this thing and want to test out if it'll be popular or not" Beta that is basically done already. Don't make a purchasing decision based on a test product.

[Capta]

I started the 1950 Season, and every Pitcher has poor Control. Theres walk after walk....


7228

[damonrusst]

So just thought I'd post that this is still happening in 10, which you probably know. PLayed 1968, still got ridiculously high scores in the first month which levelled off as the season went on. Also got at least one no hitter or perfect game every day of the season. And pitcher's ratings still seem to be way off, esp pitch ratings. I've attached screenshots of the no hitters and ratings.

[Sanji Watsuki]

Wasn't sure what to classify this by.

Everytime I start up a 2007 file I see... SUPER TEXANS! By SUPER, I mean that their overalls are 100 and their other stats... haven't changed at all.

For example, according to the player editor, Kevin Walker should be rated 72/72. Instead, I see a fat 100/100.

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/3282/supertexansnj1.jpg

Also, when I edit any player their overall/peak doesn't change. In this picture, Rupe should have an overall of 100. Best rated 67 guy ever.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/8844/superrupejq6.jpg

[Jono992]

One of my big complaints about player performances is outfielder errors/assists.

An outfielder with a low fielding rating will frequently make 20+ errors in a season. In real life even the worst of worst outfielders don't make more than say 12-14 errors max and usually much less.

Also, in previous years of the game, you would see outfielders with 20-30 outfield assists, way too much in my opinion. Now you have the opposite problem, I'm not sure I've seen an outfielder reach double digits in assists. And outfielders with 95 arms may have just 3 on the season.

And of much less importance, but I'll mention it anyway, I can convert my superslick fielding 3B with a 53 speed rating into a great defensive CF. Not too realistic.

[waltwa]

Scores and Walks are still astronomical. They seemed ok in 2007 replay but in a 1958 replay scores and walks extremely high.

[JerryArr]

Walks are still implausibly high. (in 10.00)

Link (http://home.comcast.net/~jerryarr/79-0403J.html)

[Clay Dreslough]

I believe the cause of the totally wacky stats in historical seasons is now fixed. This should fix many of the bad player ratings, predicted stats, high-scoring games, high ERAs, too many IBB and HR, overflow errrors (nEvent too high) etc.

[ohms_law]

Awesome!
Everyone, wait until 10.02 is out, and then see if you can find specific ratings problems. Start new threads about it, please.
:D

[Clay Dreslough]

Start new threads about it, please.Good advice.

[cartman00000001]

hopefully this isn't a repost. I started in 1977 and played 1 week. I'm seeing scores like 101-89 after 1 inning and team ERA's over 250! Tough league LOL

[ohms_law]

Get the updates (Click Help -> "Check for new version" in game). This was fixed in 10.02/10.03.
:)

[ohms_law]

"Houston, we have a problem"
Simmed universe, from 1901-2006, all computer controlled the whole time:

[elgato7664]

That is already discussed here:
http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showpost.php?p=708863&postcount=17

:D

[ohms_law]

Yea, but it's lumped in with everything else, and the primary issue of that thread was fixed. Therefore, new thread.
;)

[Red Sox Fan 734]

I was just looking at some stats in the Encyclopedia and i found this odd. In the last 2 years the only players to sacrifice bunt played on my team. I just found it odd that only 6 players over 2 years in the entire MLB sac bunted.

[ohms_law]

Yea, Intentional walks are bad as well...

Game Play Bug (10.03) Intentional walks are never issued [Fixed 10.06] (http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthread.php?t=137759)

hey, it was fixed! Yay!
:)

[LetsGoOakland]

Here are some screenshots of some of my players. Especially look at their AVG, OBP, and SLG compared to their ratings at the top. The only thing that I can think is causing this is because I clicked "Simulation" at the gameplay setup. I'm playing on "Fan". Maybe there is some sort of problem...any ideas?

7345

7346

7347

7348

[ohms_law]

Humm... sort of small samples sizes. Your guys above only have 90-100 games (300-400 AB's). That's not a terrible sample size, but its not rock solid by any means.

All that I'm getting at is, could you look at the rest of the league? Who's on the leaderboards? If you look at stats in sortable stats, is all the offense low, ro just these players? Maybe it's something with your team (certain strategies are capable of really screwing with your hitting)?

[GM24]

I've seen this quite a bit myself actually. This usually happens when there is too much league wide talent. Check the overall talent level of your league.

[ohms_law]

Speaking of inaccuracies...
Check this fictional player out!
7368
I think that a lot of this may be the effect of no intentional walks, and similar issues. Something about fictional player generation may need to be tweaked slightly though...

[Red Sox Fan 734]

156 Homeruns:eek:

[ohms_law]

Yea, exactly...
:)

[gZusLuvsU15]

I just completed a 120 win season with the Tigers. I traded a couple of my older, high salaried players, so I can make room for some of my young talent. My pitching staff stayed relatively intact. Once I start the next season, I am suddenly the worse team to ever play baseball. My first month I went 0-24 with a 16.35 ERA for my pitching staff. My offense seems to be about correct, but my pitching staff, which I barely changed at all is HORRIBLE! I tried to reload my game many times, and played the whole season out a couple times, but every time I have the same result. I downloaded the latest beta (10.07) and it still does this. Basically, I'm wondering if I have reached the limit of the amount of seasons I can play in the beta. I'm in the 7th season of my mogul career. Or if this is actually a bug with the game. If you need some screenshots, I can do that.

Andrew Miller is has the lowest ERA on my team....with 14.64 ERA!

[gZusLuvsU15]

Last year
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/gZusLuvsU15/BB2K8-3.jpg

This year
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/gZusLuvsU15/BB2K8-2.jpg

[YOUKILIS20]

I've played longer than seven seasons, did you have a number of injuries or was it just general poor performances? What were the final scores of your games, as we've seen some seasons where stats are way out of whack and scores are 20-3, etc.

[gZusLuvsU15]

No I had about a normal rate of injuries. Here's a screen shot of my schedule for my first month, it's about the same throughout the year. Some months I won't win a single game.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/gZusLuvsU15/BB2K8-4.jpg

[YOUKILIS20]

yeah I have seen those kind of results in my seasons. the scores are pretty outrageous, but it hasn't happened for a while to me thankfully. play through the season and see what happens, my scores righted themselves the next year or so.

[HoustonGM]

Was your catcher changed between the two years?

[pacers721]

yeah, a bad catcher has been known to do this

[gZusLuvsU15]

So you're saying that Delmon Young won't be able to play catcher!!? :D

Well, that must be it. At least I don't have to start over.

Thanks guys!

Sorry, I guess this should'nt have been listed in the Beta forum.

[HoustonGM]

Yeah, I can't find the thread but the catcher's fielding (possibly handling?) rating has a large effect on the pitchers...

[ohms_law]

One of my favorite threads: Worst Collapse of Pitching ever? (http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthread.php?t=117651&highlight=worst+pitching)
:)

Keep in mind that much of that information is out of date now. Still, it's something worth checking into again.

There also could very well be other bugs that are causing this sort of problem. Don't assume anything without verifying it.

[carload]

I wasn't going to mention it because some folks would start hollaring about AI abuse. But for one campaign in BBM 2006, I used what I called "The Poison Catcher" tactic for grins. The algorithm:

* Get some really great hitters (often 1B) via FA.

* Keep changing their fielding position in horrible ways, then make them catchers.

* Trade them to teams that you hate. You might need to throw in a weak prospect or $1 million.

* The hated teams will use the great hitters/terrible catchers in their starting lineup, oblivious to the fact that the catchers are killing their teams. Because...

* With such a "poison catcher" behind the plate, every player who makes it to first base will score. As an earned run, somehow.

All of which leads me to the question, at what point does a catcher's handling affect ERA? And how much? I mean, without resorting to poison catchers. :D

[ohms_law]

hehe
far from screaming at you, I applaud the thought. This is a good way to test out the limits and whatnot... That's basically what I did in my tests in the other thread (aside from the trading part, which is evil... :D)

this:

at what point does a catcher's handling affect ERA? And how much?
are excellent questions. Part of the effects that I saw earlier were due to bug which have since been corrected, and still are as far as I know. It's certainly worth testing out again though, especially with this report here.
Even if there isn't any bugs (or at least only a few remaining) with passed balls and incorrect earned vs. unearned scoring, it's still more the worth testing out.

[at65]

I've looked through my season and have found pitchers with 150+ walks who ultimately have good control. All Chien Ming Wang has is control in real life and in BM2k8 he suddenly has an 182 BB season.

[at65]

I've looked through my season and have found pitchers with 150+ walks who ultimately have good control. All Chien Ming Wang has is control in real life and in BM2k8 he suddenly has an 182 BB season.

[Mickademus]

I've noticed the same thing, pitchers with 90+ control walking 7-8 batters a game.

[Mickademus]

I've noticed the same thing, pitchers with 90+ control walking 7-8 batters a game.

[ohms_law]

Here we go with the bitmaps again... :rolleyes:
I edited your post to convert the pic to jpeg format, and put it on the forum instead of that image service, so you're post isn't sucking up everyones bandwidth with a 2MB picture anymore.

Anyway, Good report. I'll start looking out for this as well. I'm assuming that you started this game in 2007, correct? You're scouting is good, so that's not the problem. You have given him a bunch of innings this year, though. He's getting older as well. Still, Check out the BB/9 rates:


Year BB IP BB/9
2007 41 180 2.05
2008 48 166 2.60
2009 89 109 7.35
2010 182 210 7.80

[ohms_law]

Here we go with the bitmaps again... :rolleyes:
I edited your post to convert the pic to jpeg format, and put it on the forum instead of that image service, so you're post isn't sucking up everyones bandwidth with a 2MB picture anymore.

Anyway, Good report. I'll start looking out for this as well. I'm assuming that you started this game in 2007, correct? You're scouting is good, so that's not the problem. You have given him a bunch of innings this year, though. He's getting older as well. Still, Check out the BB/9 rates:


Year BB IP BB/9
2007 41 180 2.05
2008 48 166 2.60
2009 89 109 7.35
2010 182 210 7.80

[HoustonGM]

This probably has nothing to do with the catcher thing, but it's wroth checking his catcher's fielding ratings...

[HoustonGM]

This probably has nothing to do with the catcher thing, but it's wroth checking his catcher's fielding ratings...

[ohms_law]

Good point.

This part is fixed in 10.08:

Speaking of inaccuracies...
Check this fictional player out!
7368
I think that a lot of this may be the effect of no intentional walks, and similar issues. Something about fictional player generation may need to be tweaked slightly though...


156 Homeruns:eek:


Yea, exactly...
:)

However, I believe that everything else here is related (it used to be 3 threads). I'm specifically testing out the catcher thing now, though.

[LetsGoOakland]

Oh, if only we had a pitching coach we could blame all of these problems on...

:D

[ohms_law]

OK, the old standby test for catchers is first. Here's the result of messing up Chris Snyder (and dropping all of Arizona's other catchers).

Snyder, edited to be a terrible fielder (lots of errors and passed balls):
7424

Effect on Brandon Webb:
7425
note that the reason his historic stats are "inaccurate" is because of my Lahman mod. Don't pay attention to that right now.

The important issue is that all of Arizona's pitchers are in the 10's for ERA.
Also, not the number of walks that Webb earned. He's one of the better control pitchers in the league.

Compare him to Smoltz, on Atlanta, with an unedited catcher:
7426

now the question is, why? Some of the answer is obvious, but it I'm looking into the specifics now with an eye to scoring bugs and whatnot.

[ohms_law]

OK, the old standby test for catchers is first. Here's the result of messing up Chris Snyder (and dropping all of Arizona's other catchers).

Snyder, edited to be a terrible fielder (lots of errors and passed balls):
7424

Effect on Brandon Webb:
7425
note that the reason his historic stats are "inaccurate" is because of my Lahman mod. Don't pay attention to that right now.

The important issue is that all of Arizona's pitchers are in the 10's for ERA.
Also, not the number of walks that Webb earned. He's one of the better control pitchers in the league.

Compare him to Smoltz, on Atlanta, with an unedited catcher:
7426

now the question is, why? Some of the answer is obvious, but it I'm looking into the specifics now with an eye to scoring bugs and whatnot.

[HoustonGM]

And apparnatly have insane walk rates, which would go a long way in expliaining that Chien-Ming Wang issue.

[HoustonGM]

And apparnatly have insane walk rates, which would go a long way in expliaining that Chien-Ming Wang issue.

[ohms_law]

Yup. looking into it.

So, let's see. Livian Hernandez lasted two innings in this game. All the passed balls are to be expected (it's what we're testing, after all). The intentional walks are curious, though (Hernandez/AI scared to throw to Snyder? Maybe...)
7427

Notice, the intentional walks are counted as BB's in the box score
7429
Is that correct?

[ohms_law]

Yup. looking into it.

So, let's see. Livian Hernandez lasted two innings in this game. All the passed balls are to be expected (it's what we're testing, after all). The intentional walks are curious, though (Hernandez/AI scared to throw to Snyder? Maybe...)
7427

Notice, the intentional walks are counted as BB's in the box score
7429
Is that correct?

[KokoBWare]

Yeah i think this has been mentioned before,but it's outta control.

my pitchers are walking like 7 (lowest) to 11(highestish) batters a game.

I tried changing catchers,and messing with my strategy's,also built a new park.
nuthin doing, i tried to lower the walks for 6 seasons and it just fluctuated 1 walk or so.

Anyway, I love the new look,(though im not sure bout the red,though i can prob change that right, and the little ticker thing is cool,...Really its just the walks i dont like.
All in all this game has a lot of potential,ive been playing since 99 and this one feels like it could be the best yet.

So i guess just keep up the good work and try and tweak the walks a bit.
(cant seem to end this so i wont try)

P.S.(Also this seems to be happening almost exclusively to my team,was that an ending?)

[KokoBWare]

Yeah i think this has been mentioned before,but it's outta control.

my pitchers are walking like 7 (lowest) to 11(highestish) batters a game.

I tried changing catchers,and messing with my strategy's,also built a new park.
nuthin doing, i tried to lower the walks for 6 seasons and it just fluctuated 1 walk or so.

Anyway, I love the new look,(though im not sure bout the red,though i can prob change that right, and the little ticker thing is cool,...Really its just the walks i dont like.
All in all this game has a lot of potential,ive been playing since 99 and this one feels like it could be the best yet.

So i guess just keep up the good work and try and tweak the walks a bit.
(cant seem to end this so i wont try)

P.S.(Also this seems to be happening almost exclusively to my team,was that an ending?)

[ohms_law]

Most of the walks are (probably) intentional walks. See above.
Clay just recently changed the code to increase the number of intentional walks that occur. It's probably overdone right now, somehow.

The other issue is, I'm fairly sure that intentional walks are never scored as BB's on box scores. Based on the post above, the game is scoring them incorrectly.

[ohms_law]

Most of the walks are (probably) intentional walks. See above.
Clay just recently changed the code to increase the number of intentional walks that occur. It's probably overdone right now, somehow.

The other issue is, I'm fairly sure that intentional walks are never scored as BB's on box scores. Based on the post above, the game is scoring them incorrectly.

[Clay Dreslough]

Sorry about the 10.08 link. Should have it posted soon.

I've re-worked a fair bit of rating code for 10.08. So when it's posted I think you won't be seeing these problems. The walk rates look OK in my test, and the displayed ratings better match performance.

In any case, let me know if you still see issues. I'd start a new thread at this point since this thread has a lot of different examples -- and I've tried to address most of them.

FYI, my quick tests have only involved 1-2 seasons. So if the stats look good in a new game but become unrealistic AFTER 5 or 10 or 15 seasons, please point that out in the bug report.

Thanks!

Clay

[bigpapi]

However, it seems to only be a problem in the first season. I played through 4 seasons 1930-1933, and walks were out of control for the first season only. See Red Ruffing below, and just about every other pitcher had the same issue:

[Robert]

Don'tcha know man? 1930, that year they threw underhand.

[mystupidmouth]

Did your Catcher suck in 1930?
That usually has a big impact on how good your pitchers are.

[ohms_law]

I added a bunch of information to this thread. The problem is probably intentional walks. Their being scored incorrectly (I think).

[Borker]

I had this happen with 10.08 as well. I used a saved game from a previous version, and with the 10.08 patch every pitcher's walk rate on my team (and only my team) roughly doubled. Guys previously at 3.00 BB per 9 were suddenly at 6 or 7 BB per 9. The next year, I altered my strategies to almost never pitch around a hitter and then they were back to normal.

My impression was that my pitchers were just walking every good hitter they faced. Having it go back to normal after adjusting the sliders seems to confirm this.

[bigpapi]

Any word on whether this will be fixed before Tuesday? It happens in PBP mode too, so it makes the first year pretty unplayable. I'd just hate to download this when I get home from work Tuesday and not be able to really play it. Would make me ------> :(

[LetsGoOakland]

Pitchers are still giving up too many walks...

7485

7486

Look at their control, then look at their walks.

~Will

[HoustonGM]

Check what the catchers fielding ratings are.

[LetsGoOakland]

I knew from reading these boards that the catcher has a huge effect on pitchers. So I went out and got the best fielding (and hitting ;) ) catcher I could...

7487

[LetsGoOakland]

Note:

I simulated one season and got the pitcher reports from above. I didn't save that season - but I assure you that Russell Martin (in 100%, non injured form) was catching the whole season.

I gotta run...will simulate more...

~W

[mooseman74]

Yeah I'm seeing a huge number of walks with 10.09 as well....same with 10.08. Roy Halladay has 81 walks in 115 innings so far in 2007 (July 13th)....he wouldn't walk that many in 300 innings regardless of the catcher....and my catcher ratings are excellent.....every single pitcher has more walks than strikeouts....and a lot of them.....but only on the user team (Jays)...the rest of the CPU teams are normal.

[ohms_law]

Check if intentional walks are being scored as regular walks.

[HoustonGM]

Check if intentional walks are being scored as regular walks.
Even so, that's way too many intentinoal walks being issued then :)

[ohms_law]

True, but that's a separate issue. Well, different at least.
:)

[bigpapi]

So based on the fact that there won't be a version 10.10, am I to assume that the walks issue won't be fixed? Whether intentional walks are being counted as regular walks, this is still too many, and it was everyone on my team, and only my team for the first year as stated before:

[HoustonGM]

There is a version 10.10 coming out...

[ohms_law]

And, there will be a version 10.11, 10.12, 10.13, etc...
:)

Anyway, this is now "fixed in 10.10". Start a new thread if you continue to see problems.