10.21 Double Switch/defensive replacements bugs [Fixed 10.25C]

[Sher]

This has happened twice to me in play by play mode.

When I have made a defensive replacement, the pitcher gets inserted into the lineup batting 9th, instead of the catcher who was batting 9th. I am in the AL so the pitcher wouldn't bat unless I make a double switch.

Sorry, I forgot to mention I am on Windows XP and BM Version 9.4.4.0

Here is my box score, Posada who was a defensive replacement for Fasano disappears in the 9 spot, replaced by the pitcher in the batting order, but apparently not in the box score. The two names under the 9th spot were pinch hitters for the pitcher.

[TheNamelessPoet]

did giambi somehow end up behind the plate... if so than the DH is nullified and the pitcher must come in and hit in the removed players spot. The DH can NEVER be changed to a fielder durring a game due to this rule. Well... he can you just have to have the pitcher hit for the rest of the game.

[jgurney]

This has happened to me 3-4 times also. I'll see if I can find a recap to post. I'm playing Manager Mode using DH and with v9.44I, and when I made on a defensive replacement, it occasionally gives a very long and weird character string on the substition window instead of the actual position. Then the next half inning, I get a pop-up that I have a non-pitcher on the mound and would I like to replace him. I do, and then the pitcher takes over for my defensive substitution player (suddenly I'm without a 2B).

[Sher]

Giambi did not end up behind the plate.

I substituted Fasano (starter) for Posada, but Mussina was then given a spot (9th) in the line up.


I'll see if I can find a recap to post. I'm playing Manager Mode using DH and with v9.44I, and when I made on a defensive replacement, it occasionally gives a very long and weird character string on the substition window instead of the actual position.

Same thing happened to me. A weird string like -104582 or something.

[FRENCHREDSOX]

Happened twice I see (Rivera was due to bat but you replaced him with Matsui)

only thing I can think of is that when you made the substitutions you switched the players around involuntarily & so induced the pitchers into the line up by mistake;


but Im on very shaky ground (guess work)

[SirKodiak]

I remember seeing the strange number where the position should have been one time. I used the undo button to back out because I was testing undo button, then went back into the defensive change to attempt to reproduce it the position error and couldn't.

[jgurney]

It just happened again. I pinch hit for my 2B in the bottom of the 7th. Then I moved my SS to 2B, and moved the PH to SS so I could replace him with a new SS. Then I see the weird number string, and voila once I replace the SS, I get the P playing 2B in the 8th inning.

Here is the box score and recap:

[jonnymo]

XP SP2 BBM v. 9.44I:

Miguel Cairo enters as a PH for the home team's pitcher in the bottom of the eighth. He reaches on a single and scores three batters later. No run is charged to the visiting team's pitcher, Steve Mintz, although after blowing the save, he correctly earns the win. Cairo gets credit for run scored, and Bernie Williams gets credit for RBI (see attachments). No errors in the inning.

I thought that there was a bug similar to this a while back, but I couldn't find the thread.

[Sher]

A screenshot of the "weird number string" could help out as well though, if one of us manages to catch it.

Due to being more careful, I managed to catch it :cool: I subbed out A-Rod For Eric Duncan.

[EVEN11323]

I'm having some troubles with the pitcher being inserted into the lineup while playing an AL Game. Scenerio;

Top of the Ninth, Twins up 3-2. I bring in Lew Ford to replace Shannon Stewart, who was batting 2nd and would be due up if there were a bottom of the 9th. I then bring in Joe Nathan, who blows the save. When I come up to bat, Nathan is the #2 hitter and up at bat. Any ways to fix this or has anyone been having this problem? Thanks.

[ghettostar]

yeah, i've had this problem to with my starting pitcher being inserted- didnt try pinch hitting cause i didnt want to change my pitcher early. I'll try iy next time.

[EVEN11323]

Another thing that just happened to me, sort of dealing with this. Top of the 9th, Texas just took the lead 6-5. They bring in 4 defensive replacements. The Twins rally to win the game 11-6. In the box score it gives the loss to Mark DeRosa, but it says his record is 0-0. Anyone else with this type of result?

[nicktx1]

i have seen this a number of times in old patches, but i thought it was fixed. Grady Sizemore shows up as CF twice on the box score and as a pitcher although he didn't through a pitch. I switched him with Victorino after he pinch hit. I not sure this is a problem that can be fixed, but if so, it would be really nice.

here is a game recap. if you look back on these in the game, they get really annoying

[ohms_law]

True, but let's wait and see if EVEN11323 checks back in and fills us in with some more details. Right now I'm not really sure what to change the thread title to from what it currently is, anyway.

ok, thanks Nicktx1.

The relevent portion of the game looks like an odd defensive switch in the eigth (I'm not sure why Sizemore is being moved to the pitchers position to begin with):

BOTTOM OF THE EIGHTH
Grady Sizemore came in to pitch for the Phillies. <--->
Shane Victorino moved to Center Field. <--->
Daniel Haigwood came in to pitch for the Phillies. <--->
Carlos Lee struck out. <--->
Russell Branyan doubled in the right field gap. <-2->
Damian Miller flied out to center. <-2->
Prince Fielder flied out to center. <-2->
0 runs, 1 hit, 0 errors, and 1 left on base.
At the end of the eighth, Milwaukee trails 12 to 2.

[SirKodiak]

Double switch after done batting, you move the player you are going to take out of the game to the P position, then go to pitcher screen and put in pitcher.

[EVEN11323]

Sorry about not making a new topic on this, just went past me. Here is the Box Score and the Recap. And no, DeRosa never threw a pitch in the game.

[ohms_law]

Man, i really was tired this morning...
lol

Anyway, yea. Aparently performing a double switch causes all sorts of scoring problems. Didn't you post something specifically about this earlier?

Thanks for posting the box score and recap.

Interesting problem here. it looks somewhat similar to the double switch problem. I'm willing to bet that it's caused by the same area of bad code, at least.

you are using 9.45, correct?
i've re-edited the thread title as well.

[EVEN11323]

Yeah and I just noticed that in the totals for the Texas pitchers it only shows 9 runs and 8 earned. Otsuka should have 4 earned runs.

Yes, I am using 9.45 .

[nicktx1]

yes, i did in http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthread.php?t=120086, but that was for the whole entire team and not just the one specific player taken out. It has never been perfect, but maybe its a problem that will make more headaches to fix than it is to the game.

[RAW]

As you can see in my box score, it shows Jeter twice at SS with 5 ABs, and Lopez, who replaced Jeter in a double switch, pitching, instead of playing SS. In Jeter's season record, however, the extra 5 ABs were not added, but the box score looks screwey doesn't it. And the totals are correct. In Nicktx1 posting, it shouldn't say "Grady Sizemore came in to pitch", because he didn't, he was just replaced in a double switch.


PHILADELPHIA ab h bb r hr bi k sb avg
D. Jeter (SS) 5 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 .188
D. Jeter (SS) 5 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 .188
T. Mattes (P) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
D. Roberts (CF) 4 1 1 1 0 1 0 0 .294
L. Berkman (1B) 3 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 .231
C. Jones (3B) 2 1 2 1 0 0 1 0 .231
V. Guerrero (RF) 4 2 0 1 1 4 0 0 .500
M. Lieberthal (C) 4 1 0 0 0 0 2 0 .250
J. McEwing (2B) 4 1 0 1 0 0 2 0 .308
D. Jackson (LF) 4 2 0 1 0 0 0 1 .500
M. Mussina (P) 2 0 0 0 0 1 2 0 .000
S. Radinsky (P) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
M. Lincoln (P) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
L. Lopez (P) 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .667
TOTALS 38 8 4 6 1 6 10 1

Version 9.45. I substituted two defensive replacements and left the pitcher in. When my team came to bat, one of my defensive players was then placed in the pitchers slot in the order and the pitcher was moved into the #2 slot, making my hitters hit out of order.


PHILADELPHIA ab h bb r hr bi k sb avg
D. Roberts (LF) 5 3 1 2 0 1 2 2 .281
D. Jeter (SS) 5 3 0 3 2 6 1 0 .333
K. Foster (P) 4 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 .167
K. Griffey (CF) 5 4 1 1 0 1 0 0 .360
C. Jones (3B) 5 2 0 0 0 0 2 0 .357
E. Chavez (P) 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
J. Giambi (1B) 3 1 2 2 0 0 0 0 .250
D. Fletcher (C) 5 2 1 2 0 0 1 0 .278
C. Wakeland (RF) 6 3 0 1 1 5 0 0 .450
J. McEwing (2B) 4 3 2 2 0 0 0 0 .250
L. Lopez (P) 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 .500
TOTALS 44 22 7 13 3 13 7 2

Lopez replaced Jeter and should be hitting in the #2 slot. Instead, as seen in the box score, Lopez is listed as the pitcher (instead of SS) and put into the #9 slot with Foster moved to #2.


TOP OF THE SEVENTH
Eric Chavez came in to play Third Base. <--->
Luis Lopez came in to play Shortstop. <--->
Jason LaRue popped up to the first baseman in foul ground. <--->
Tim Hummel grounded to third. <--->
Steve Gibralter pinch hit for Scott MacRae. <--->
Steve Gibralter grounded to first. <--->
0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors, and 0 left on base.
In the middle of the seventh, Cincinnati trails 12 to 2.

BOTTOM OF THE SEVENTH
Johnny Ruffin came in to pitch for the Reds. <--->
Jason Giambi was hit by a pitch. <--1>
Darrin Fletcher grounded to the shortstop. <-2->
Chris Wakeland flied out to right. <-2->
Joe McEwing walked. <-21>
Luis Lopez singled to center. <321>
Dave Roberts singled through the left side, scoring a run. <321>
Kevin Foster struck out. <321>
1 run, 2 hits, 0 errors, and 3 left on base.
At the end of the seventh, Philadelphia leads 13 to 2.

Did exactly the same thing in another game and lineup didn't change. Maybe I did something wrong the first time, but can't figure out what. I'll keep a eye out to see if it happens again and post it. Others might also be on the lookout to see if it occurs to you.

[bigpapi]

Chris Holies was "charged" with the loss. His record shows 0-0 and in John Habyan's bio (the player who SHOULD have been charged with the loss) it doesn't show the loss, just the stats from the game. I saw the other thread about double switches, and there wasn't a double switch here, just defensive replacements in the 9th inning, and none of it had anything to do with Hoiles.


BALTIMORE ab h bb r hr bi k sb avg
A. Van Slyke (RF) 4 0 1 0 0 0 2 1 .266
D. Segui (1B) 3 2 1 2 0 0 0 0 .300
A. Espinoza (P) 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 .375
D. Martinez (CF) 4 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 .385
F. Thomas (DH) 3 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 .343
G. Vaughn (LF) 3 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 .254
K. Gerhart (P) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .214
C. Hoiles (C) 4 2 0 0 0 1 0 0 .174
T. Pendleton (3B) 4 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 .263
E. Riles (SS) 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .255
J. Gutierrez (P) 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .212
J. Reed (2B) 4 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 .194
TOTALS 34 9 3 3 0 3 6 1

2B: C. Hoiles (6), T. Pendleton (19)
3B: D. Segui (2)

BALTIMORE ip h bb hr r er k pit ERA
D. Drabek 6.2 8 3 0 2 2 5 118 4.10
J. Habyan 2.0 2 0 1 1 1 1 41 3.53
G. Olson 0.1 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 3.96
TOTALS 9.0 10 3 1 3 3 6 166

WP: V. Lovelace (1-0)
LP: C. Hoiles (0-0)
SV: M. Rivera (26)


TOP OF THE SEVENTH
Paul Molitor singled down the third base line. <--1>
Paul Molitor was caught stealing second. <--->
Jeff Kent struck out. <--->
Barry Larkin walked. <--1>
John Habyan came in to pitch for the Orioles. <--1>
Barry Larkin stole second. <-2->
Wade Boggs grounded to first base. <-2->
0 runs, 1 hit, 0 errors, and 1 left on base.
In the middle of the seventh, the game is tied at 2.


TOP OF THE NINTH
Alvaro Espinoza came in to play First Base. <--->
Jackie Gutierrez came in to play Shortstop. <--->
Ken Gerhart came in to play Left Field. <--->
Jeff Bagwell grounded to second. <--->
Mike Piazza singled down the first base line. <--1>
Marquis Grissom pinch ran for Mike Piazza. <--1>
Marquis Grissom stole second. <-2->
Paul Molitor homered to right-center for two RBIs. <--->
Jeff Kent flied out to right. <--->
Barry Larkin reached first on a fielding error by the shortstop. <--1>
Gregg Olson came in to pitch for the Orioles. <--1>
Barry Larkin stole second. <-2->
Wade Boggs lined out to left field. <-2->
2 runs, 2 hits, 1 error, and 1 left on base.
In the middle of the ninth, Boston leads 4 to 3.

[ohms_law]

Thanks for posting.

You're right, it's not really a double switch. I believe that it's the same problem though, or at least caused by the same "bad" code. Therefore, i've merged this together with the existing thread, since it'll probably be easier for Clay to address the problem that way.

Good post though. you included all the relevent details.
:)

PS: all the darn redirects ought to be disappearing tonight and tomorrow. It looks liek the forum software is bugged somehow though, since a couple of them are timestamped to have expired already. If there still there later on tonight, i'll probably just start deleting them.

[RAW]

This was reported earlier, but is buried in the post about double switching. This is not a double/switch bug, but is somewhat related. However, I wanted it to be posted as a stand alone bug.

Using version 9.45. I brought in two defensive replacements and left my starting pitcher in. When my team came to bat, one of the defensive replacements came to bat in the pitchers slot, while the pitcher was moved to another slot in the lineup previously occupied by one of the players replaced.

The box score doesn't properly show the problem as it doesn't show the pitcher hitting 9th as he did in the early innings, but shows him in the new spot in the order that he was moved to. So, I didn't include either the box score or the play by play in this posting, but can do so if you think it would be helpful.

[Raven2490]

I removed my 2nd baseman and replaced him with a bench player and all of the sudden my line up included the pitcher and it did not show a 2nd baseman on my line up during the game. When it came to that slot due up I had to pinch hit for my pitcher.

anyway to fix this bug ?

thanks in advance :)

[jgurney]

I believe Clay is looking into this, but I don't know how reproducible it is. It definitely happens fairly often in Manager Mode games, and we always get a strange number string instead of the position when making the defensive switch before the bug happens. I don't know what else we can do to help track it down.

[ohms_law]

FYI: this is a very, VERY seriously anoying bug for those that play using PBP. It's not noticeable when simming of course, but... i've started playing every game in PBP mode. happens quite often. Aparently, all you need to do is make any sort of lineup sub, and the pitcher is inserted as the #9 batter form that point on.
:(

Actuall though, I think that Clay mantioned that he's planning on making the pitchers slot in the lineup adjustable in 2008. If that's true, then this bug would probably be quashed in the process. Still deserves mention though.
That and it's bugging me. and I'm a mod now. so I can bump posts as I see fit!
:p :D

ps.: where's Sher? (she?) had made some good contributions, so i'd like (her?) to stick around...

[bigpapi]

I was just wondering when/if this bug was going to be fixed...It makes it really hard to try to pinch hit with anyone other than a player of the same position so I don't have to make a defensive replacement. If a fix was posted or an approximate date for a fix was posted I apologize, I just finished a game and it happened again so I figured I would come ask, thanks!

[John DiFool]

A workaround which works for me is to replace the guy, UNDO the replacement,
and then do it again. He should now be playing the correct position (tho the
display may still call him a "pitcher").

[JayC]

A workaround which works for me is to replace the guy, UNDO the replacement,
and then do it again. He should now be playing the correct position (tho the
display may still call him a "pitcher").
What I've found works is one more step than that. First you just keep an eye on the "batting position" numbers when making a switch, and make sure that the position where you're putting the replacement still is between 1 and 9. If it's not, hit "UNDO" and highlight the guy you're replacing then hit "DOWN" or "UP" to move him to a different spot. Then do the replacement again (and you should see that the batting order numbers stay correct this time), and hit "UP" or "DOWN" to put the players back where they belong.

A bit of a hassle, but it never fails for me -- and once you get in the habit and do it without thinking it through it's not that big a deal.

[TheNamelessPoet]

i THINK this might have been reported but just in case. i replaced an OFer in the middle of the inning (with 1 out) and he now is in my pitchers spot :( boy does that f**k me up since the LF was in the #5 spot... now they are gonna walk david wright:( he has like 4-5 HR in 7 games in the playoffs. I am very sad :(

[Rovy]

What I've found works is one more step than that. First you just keep an eye on the "batting position" numbers when making a switch, and make sure that the position where you're putting the replacement still is between 1 and 9. If it's not, hit "UNDO" and highlight the guy you're replacing then hit "DOWN" or "UP" to move him to a different spot. Then do the replacement again (and you should see that the batting order numbers stay correct this time), and hit "UP" or "DOWN" to put the players back where they belong.

A bit of a hassle, but it never fails for me -- and once you get in the habit and do it without thinking it through it's not that big a deal.

Rather than looking at batting numbers, as I've seen it be correct, AND put the pitcher in, look on the right side... if it says Pitcher after you do the replacement, then you have to undo, and use up/down. I have had it at times put the pitcher in AFTER I've done an up/down, so I just undo, and replace without the up/down, without problem.

[RAW]

Version 9.45. National League, no DH. Often, when I insert a defensive replacement, but leave the pitcher in, the defensive replacement is put into the 9th spot in the batting order, and the pitcher is moved to the position in the order previously occupied by the replaced player. This should occur only in double switch moves. This bug actually has my player hitting out of order and should be automatically out if he bats.

[HarmonKillebrew]

Played my first PBP game, and had this happen... bottom of the eighth I brought in a Defensive replacement for my LF, (and I have DH rule on) and noticed that the pitcher is now batting fifth where the original LF was, with no mention in the box score of the new LF.
My LF was a LF, and the DH was a RF and the defensive rep was a CF who lists as OF in the Defensive listings... ie CF/OF.

Using version 9.45 on Windows XP SP2

Is this only happening in leagues with DH's?

[ohms_law]

After clceaning up the thread (12 posts of spam from me and Frenchredsox :rolleyes:) and re-reading it; yes, problem only seems to affect AL teams (or NL teams playing inter-league games in an AL park). Of course, if you or anyone else comes upon an occurrence with a NL team (non inter-league game, of course), then please report it here.

[sayheykid]

A couple of times I have pinch hit for the catcher with an outfielder and then tired to put the backup catcher into to play, but encounter this problem.

[Parabraves]

Probably a known bug but if there's anything I can do about it or any tips please let me know. I can't pinch-run for anybody or substitute anything while controlling an AL team, as a bunch of numbers pop up as the position once the substitution is made and the pitcher suddenly replaces that position. I know how to lose the real DH privileges but I'm not doing that in these cases.

Whoooooooooa you're right, that was very difficult to follow. Other substitution problems were addressed such as inadvertent double-switches playing NL teams, but I can live with that so I didn't feel compelled to post the bug. This is different though, as losing a position player due to simply sending in a pinch runner late in close games make PBP virtually unplayable.

[ohms_law]

The underlying problem is all the same, though... I think. We'll see once the problem is actually addressed in a patch. If some aspects are gone, but others still exist, one of us can simply start a new thread.
*shrug*

[JayC]

This is different though, as losing a position player due to simply sending in a pinch runner late in close games make PBP virtually unplayable.It's really the same bug, but it's not unplayable if you use the same workaround I mentioned earlier. Since this long thread is hard to follow, I'll mention that again:

When you make the switch, watch the batting order. If the number next to the player you're switching out changes to anything not between 1 and 9 (sometimes it's a long string; sometimes it's just zero), hit the UNDO button. Move the player you want to replace either UP or DOWN one slot, then replace him. You should then see that the batting order number does not change, but of course now he's in the wrong position. So just hit either DOWN or UP to put him where he should be, and everything will be fine.

[carload]

It was around in 2007, and it's still here. Run a DH game in PBP mode. Pinch-hit for any position player. At the next half-inning, replace him with someone who can field his position. The pitcher now bats in the position of the defensive replacement.

Of course, this is expected behavior if your defensive replacement is your DH. But this happens even with a defensive replacement off the bench.

With the pitcher and the DH both in the batting lineup, the defensive replacement never bats.

I've only seen this in PBP mode, but I've seen some suspicious non-PBP box scores with the pitcher hitting in DH games, apparently from these circumstances.

If you use your defensive replacement as a pinch-runner for the pinch-hitter, all is well. The problem strikes at the defensive half-inning.

[bobert]

Dan Haren started the game was replaced with huston street then J.J Putz who continued to pitch through the ninth inning. But it says danny haren pitched for the second time?
7297

[Nexus]

I have noticed this happen several times while playing in PBP in 2007 with the Blue Jays. Gregg Zaun will get a hit and I will pinch run for him. At the end of the inning, I will replace the pinch runner with Jason Phillips. When I do this, the catcher's spot in the batting order disappears and is replaced by the pitcher.

[crazybird1]

So I notice in 10.06 that whenever you pinch hit someone int he American league there spot in the lineup would be taken by the pitcher. This seem to be fix in 10.07 but now it has croped up again in 10.08

[CatKnight]

I realize (or would expect) there's no further support planned for this, but I thought to report in in case it somehow snuck by everybody.

Arizona @ San Diego - April 4, 2006 - Opening Day - Fantasy Players - Play by Play

Description: San Diego pitcher Jackson is pinch hit for in Bottom of 9th. The PH (Sawchuk) is later replaced by a pinch runner, Sloan. On the screen Sloan stays in the game as "DH" even after San Diego goes to another pitcher in the top of the 10th.


Box Score: (Relevant Portion)
SAN DIEGO ab h bb r hr bi k sb avg
J. Lande (CF) 4 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 .250
S. Woods (P) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
M. Walker (P) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
M. Viner (SS) 3 2 1 0 0 0 0 1 .667
R. Daniels (LF) 3 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 .000
M. Nelson (1B) 4 0 2 0 0 0 2 0 .000
C. Weems (3B) 5 2 0 1 0 1 0 1 .400
S. Anderson (C) 3 1 0 0 0 0 2 0 .333
J. Miller (PH) 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
J. Munoz (C) 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
R. Vallega (2B) 4 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 .000
C. Bitterman (RF) 5 2 1 1 1 1 2 0 .400
M. Jackson (P) 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 .333
B. Sloan (PR) 2 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 .500
K. Sawchuk (PH) 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1.000
TOTALS 40 11 9 3 1 3 7 2

HR: C. Bitterman (1)

SAN DIEGO ip h bb hr r er k pit ERA
M. Jackson 9.0 1 2 1 2 2 11 126 2.00
S. Woods 2.0 1 0 0 0 0 0 23 0.00
M. Walker 1.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 13 0.00
TOTALS 12.0 2 2 1 2 2 11 162

------------------
Game Recap: (Relevant Portion)

BOTTOM OF THE NINTH
Ray Vallega popped up to first. <--->
Chaim Bitterman homered into the center field bleachers. <--->
The Diamondbacks guarded the lines.
Michael Ross came in to pitch for the Diamondbacks. <--->
The Diamondbacks guarded the lines.
Kelly Sawchuk pinch hit for Mark Jackson. <--->
Kelly Sawchuk singled to left. <--1>
Bryan Sloan pinch ran for Kelly Sawchuk. <--1>
The Padres put on the hit and run.
Jeremy Lande laid down a sacrifice bunt to the catcher. <-2->
Michael Viner was intentionally walked. <-21>
Ron Daniels popped up to the second baseman. <-21>
1 run, 2 hits, 0 errors, and 2 left on base.
At the end of the ninth, the game is tied at 2.

TOP OF THE TENTH
Steve Woods came in to pitch for the Padres. <--->
Omar Amavisca popped up behind home plate. <--->
Clayton Laforge grounded to third. <--->
Dirk McCormick grounded to short. <--->
0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors, and 0 left on base.
In the middle of the tenth, the game is tied at 2.

BOTTOM OF THE TENTH
Mark Nelson walked. <--1>
Casey Weems laid down a sacrifice bunt to the catcher. <-2->
Jose Munoz flied out to left. <-2->
Ray Vallega was intentionally walked. <-21>
Jeffery Bruno came in to pitch for the Diamondbacks. <-21>
Chaim Bitterman struck out. <-21>
0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors, and 2 left on base.
At the end of the tenth, the game is tied at 2.

TOP OF THE ELEVENTH
Ryan Hoover singled to right. <--1>
Justin Thomas laid down a sacrifice bunt to the catcher. <-2->
Tom Thompson pinch hit for Jeffery Bruno. <-2->
Ryan Hoover was caught stealing third. <--->
Tom Thompson grounded to second. <--->
0 runs, 1 hit, 0 errors, and 0 left on base.
In the middle of the eleventh, the game is tied at 2.

BOTTOM OF THE ELEVENTH
Speedy Cepeda came in to pitch for the Diamondbacks. <--->
Bryan Sloan grounded to first. <--->
Jeremy Lande walked. <--1>
Michael Viner laid down a sacrifice bunt to the catcher. <-2->
Ron Daniels was intentionally walked. <-21>
Mark Nelson popped up to the shortstop. <-21>
0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors, and 2 left on base.
At the end of the eleventh, the game is tied at 2.

TOP OF THE TWELFTH
Mike Walker came in to pitch for the Padres. <--->
Marty Vaysberg grounded to second. <--->
Mike Ingram flied out to center. <--->
Chris Bentley grounded to third. <--->
0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors, and 0 left on base.
In the middle of the twelfth, the game is tied at 2.

BOTTOM OF THE TWELFTH
Casey Weems hit an infield single to short. <--1>
Jose Munoz grounded to the third baseman. <--1>
Ray Vallega laid down a sacrifice bunt to the catcher. <-2->
Houston Meligenis came in to pitch for the Diamondbacks. <-2->
Chaim Bitterman was intentionally walked. <-21>
Bryan Sloan singled to right, scoring a run. <3-1>

PADRES WIN: 3-2

---------------------------------
Sloan has the following stats:

CF, Age 25, Contact 86, Power 61, Speed 90, Eye 71, Arm 87, Range 90, Field 96, Health 71, Overall 81 of 81

--------------------------------

Again, I realize/expect support for 06 bugs has ceased. I just wanted to make sure this hadn't slipped by everyone into 07. :)

[bigpapi]

This bug was around last year as well iirc. Boxscore below:

Chicago White Sox at Boston Red Sox
April 2, 1930

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 + R H E
White Sox (CHW) 2 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 3 8 2
Red Sox (BOS) 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 x 6 9 0

CHICAGO ab h bb r hr bi k sb avg
A. Metzler (LF) 4 2 0 1 0 1 0 0 .429
J. Watwood (CF) 4 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 .167
W. Kamm (3B) 4 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 .125
C. Reynolds (RF) 3 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 .000
B. Clancy (1B) 4 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 .250
B. Henline (C) 4 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 .286
B. Cissell (SS) 4 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 .333
B. Hunnefield (2B) 3 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 .429
R. Faber (P) 3 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 .333
L. Appling (P) 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
TOTALS 34 8 1 3 0 3 8 0

2B: J. Watwood (1)

CHICAGO ip h bb hr r er k pit ERA
R. Faber 8.0 9 2 1 5 4 8 108 4.50
TOTALS 8.0 9 2 1 5 4 8 108

BOSTON ab h bb r hr bi k sb avg
J. Rothrock (CF) 5 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 .444
B. Barrett (LF) 3 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 .000
P. Todt (1B) 3 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 .286
P. Martin (3B) 4 1 0 0 0 2 1 0 .143
R. Scarritt (RF) 4 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 .250
C. Berry (C) 4 2 0 1 0 0 2 0 .286
B. Regan (2B) 3 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 .333
B. Reeves (SS) 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 .333
D. MacFayden (P) 2 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 .000
B. Sweeney (P) 1 1 0 1 1 4 0 0 1.000
E. Durham (P) 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
TOTALS 32 9 2 6 1 6 8 0

2B: C. Berry (1), J. Rothrock (2), P. Martin (1)
3B: J. Rothrock (1)
HR: B. Sweeney (1)
HBP: B. Reeves
GIDP: J. Rothrock

BOSTON ip h bb hr r er k pit ERA
D. MacFayden 7.0 8 0 0 3 3 5 86 3.86
E. Durham 2.0 0 1 0 0 0 3 22 0.00
TOTALS 9.0 8 1 0 3 3 8 108

WP: D. MacFayden (1-0)
LP: X. XXXXXXXX (123-123)
SV: E. Durham (1)

Temperature: 58F
Wind: 2 MPH (in from center)
Attendance: 32,261

[Clay Dreslough]

I found a fairly serious bug in the defensive substitution code. It was frequently crediting the new player as the "pitcher of record", even if he wasn't coming in as the pitcher.

I'm pretty sure this will fix the scoring problems where guys like Chris Hoiles or Mark DeRosa get credited with the win.

I'm NOT confident that it fixes the other bugs in this thread. But it might.

In any case, I'm going to close this thread and ask that you start new threads for these bugs. I was unable to reproduce the 'wacky' number showing up in the Defensive Substitution screen, or any of the other issues for that matter.

So ... if you still have these bugs in 10.12, please start a new bug report. A screen shot is always helpful, along with the reproduction steps. It would be GREAT if someone was lucky enough to save a game RIGHT BEFORE the problem occurred, and then post the .mog file along with steps needed to see the problem.

Thanks again!

Clay

[jkwici]

Hey all,

Just wanted to let you know the defensive substitution bug in AL PBP games is alive and well (the last thread I read on this had a message from Clay saying to keep posting these). I pinch-hit for a position player and then replaced him with another position player, causing my pitcher to appear in the lineup. So far, this is pretty standard for the bug.

However, as you'll see from the picture, this also caused a problem to pop-up on the opposing side. Now, the DH spot over there is duplicated, the catcher no longer appears, and as you can see, Kevin Fish is batting again after just flying out. I'm not sure if this came up in prior iterations of the bug, so I thought I'd file a report to be safe.

EDIT: Clay did ask for us to post new threads, as this one was considered "closed" by him. My apologies for any mix-up on my part...

[yankees48151623]

Bottom of the Eighth (Athletics) Score
Outs Count Pitch (MPH) George Sherrill came in to pitch for the Mariners. Runners SEA OAK
0 3-2 Slider (82) Ryan Klesko walked. 5 3
0 3-1 Fastball (86) Nick Swisher walked. 5 3
0 1-2 Fastball (89) Victor Martinez flied out to right field. 5 3
1 1-2 Slider (80) Phil Nevin singled through the right side, scoring a run. 5 4
1 2-2 Slider (80) Dan Johnson lined out to short. 5 4
J.J. Putz came in to pitch for the Mariners.
Jack Cust pinch hit for Bobby Crosby.
2 0-1 Hard Curve (85) Jack Cust popped up to second. 5 4
1 run, 1 hit, 0 errors, and 2 left on base. 5 4

Top of the Ninth (Mariners) Score
Outs Count Pitch (MPH) Philip Hughes on the mound for the Athletics. Runners SEA OAK
D'Angelo Jimenez came in to play Shortstop.
Takashi Saito came in to pitch for the Athletics.
0 3-0 Slider (86) Ichiro Suzuki singled to left field. 5 4
Ichiro Suzuki went for an extra base and reached second. 5 4
0 0-0 Fastball (95) Yuniesky Betancourt singled up the middle, scoring a run. 6 4
0 3-2 Fastball (94) Raul Ibanez grounded to the pitcher for a double play (1-6-3). 6 4
2 0-0 Slider (85) Richie Sexson flied out to center. 6 4
1 run, 2 hits, 0 errors, and 0 left on base. 6 4

Bottom of the Ninth (Athletics) Score
Outs Count Pitch (MPH) J.J. Putz on the mound for the Mariners. Runners SEA OAK
0 1-2 Hard Curve (86) Jason Kendall homered to deep left-center. 6 5
0 3-1 Fastball (96) Barry Bonds doubled down the left field line. 6 5
0 2-0 Hard Curve (86) Milton Bradley lined out to center. 6 5
1 3-1 Fastball (91) Ryan Klesko grounded to second. 6 5
Mark Lowe came in to pitch for the Mariners.
2 3-2 Slider (82) Nick Swisher walked. 6 5
2 0-0 Fastball (94) Victor Martinez singled in the left field gap, scoring a run. 6 6
Victor Martinez took second on defensive indifference. 6 6
2 2-2 Fastball (95) Phil Nevin struck out. 6 6
2 runs, 3 hits, 0 errors, and 2 left on base. 6 6

Top of the Tenth (Mariners) Score
Outs Count Pitch (MPH) Mariano Rivera came in to pitch for the Athletics. Runners SEA OAK
0 1-1 Cutter (90) Ben Broussard grounded to short. 6 6
1 1-0 Cutter (91) Jose Guillen grounded to the pitcher. 6 6
2 0-0 Cutter (89) Adrian Beltre grounded to third. 6 6
0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors, and 0 left on base. 6 6

Bottom of the Tenth (Athletics) Score
Outs Count Pitch (MPH) Mark Lowe on the mound for the Mariners. Runners SEA OAK
0 1-1 Slider (84) Dan Johnson grounded to short. 6 6
The Mariners guarded the lines.
1 3-2 Fastball (91) Mariano Rivera struck out. 6 6
2 3-2 Fastball (91) Jason Kendall singled to right field. 6 6
Arthur Rhodes came in to pitch for the Mariners.
2 3-1 Fastball (90) Barry Bonds walked. 6 6
2 1-0 Fastball (91) Milton Bradley popped up to the third baseman in foul ground. 6 6
0 runs, 1 hit, 0 errors, and 2 left on base. 6 6

Top of the Eleventh (Mariners) Score
Outs Count Pitch (MPH) Takashi Saito on the mound for the Athletics. Runners SEA OAK
0 0-2 Cutter (92) Kenji Johjima struck out. 6 6
1 2-2 Cutter (88) Adrian Beltre popped up to first. 6 6
2 0-1 Two-Seamer (90) Ichiro Suzuki grounded to the shortstop. 6 6
0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors, and 0 left on base. 6 6

Bottom of the Eleventh (Athletics) Score
Outs Count Pitch (MPH) Arthur Rhodes on the mound for the Mariners. Runners SEA OAK
0 2-2 Fastball (89) Ryan Klesko flied out to right. 6 6
1 3-2 Hard Curve (79) Nick Swisher walked. 6 6
1 2-1 Fastball (88) Victor Martinez singled into right field. 6 6
1 1-0 Fastball (89) Phil Nevin grounded to short for a double play (6-4-3). 6 6
0 runs, 1 hit, 0 errors, and 1 left on base. 6 6

Top of the Twelfth (Mariners) Score
Outs Count Pitch (MPH) Takashi Saito on the mound for the Athletics. Runners SEA OAK
0 0-0 Cutter (89) Yuniesky Betancourt grounded to third. 6 6
1 0-2 Two-Seamer (88) Raul Ibanez struck out. 6 6
2 1-1 Cutter (93) Richie Sexson grounded to short. 6 6
0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors, and 0 left on base. 6 6

Bottom of the Twelfth (Athletics) Score
Outs Count Pitch (MPH) Horacio Ramirez came in to pitch for the Mariners. Runners SEA OAK
0 0-0 Four-Seamer (92) Dan Johnson lined out to left. 6 6
The Mariners guarded the lines.
Erubiel Durazo pinch hit for Mariano Rivera.
1 0-2 Cutter (86) Erubiel Durazo grounded to second. 6 6
2 2-1 Four-Seamer (91) Jason Kendall singled into right field. 6 6
2 0-0 Four-Seamer (94) Barry Bonds singled to center, advancing the runner to third. 6 6
Barry Bonds took second on defensive indifference. 6 6
Milton Bradley took second on defensive indifference. 6 6
2 3-2 Four-Seamer (92) Ryan Klesko walked. 6 6
2 1-1 Change (79) Nick Swisher grounded to short. 6 6
0 runs, 2 hits, 0 errors, and 3 left on base. 6 6

Top of the Thirteenth (Mariners) Score
Outs Count Pitch (MPH) Joe Nathan came in to pitch for the Athletics. Runners SEA OAK
0 0-2 Slider (86) Ben Broussard singled to center. 6 6
0 0-0 Fastball (95) Jose Guillen grounded to third, forcing the runner at second. 6 6
1 2-1 Slider (87) Adrian Beltre flied out to left. 6 6
Jose Guillen stole second 6 6
2 2-2 Slider (88) Kenji Johjima flied out to left. 6 6
0 runs, 1 hit, 0 errors, and 1 left on base. 6 6

Bottom of the Thirteenth (Athletics) Score
Outs Count Pitch (MPH) Arthur Rhodes on the mound for the Mariners. Runners SEA OAK
0 0-0 Four-Seamer (88) Victor Martinez lined out to left. 6 6
1 0-1 Change (82) Phil Nevin grounded to short. 6 6
2 0-0 Four-Seamer (90) Dan Johnson popped up to second. 6 6
0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors, and 0 left on base. 6 6

Top of the Fourteenth (Mariners) Score
Outs Count Pitch (MPH) Takashi Saito on the mound for the Athletics. Runners SEA OAK
0 1-2 Fastball (98) Adrian Beltre struck out. 6 6
1 1-2 Slider (89) Ichiro Suzuki grounded back to the pitcher. 6 6
2 0-2 Slider (85) Yuniesky Betancourt struck out. 6 6
0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors, and 0 left on base. 6 6

Bottom of the Fourteenth (Athletics) Score
Outs Count Pitch (MPH) Arthur Rhodes on the mound for the Mariners. Runners SEA OAK
The Mariners guarded the lines.
Esix Snead pinch hit for Joe Nathan.
0 2-2 Cutter (90) Esix Snead flied out to right. 6 6
1 2-2 Four-Seamer (92) Jason Kendall struck out. 6 6
2 1-0 Four-Seamer (89) Barry Bonds singled to center. 6 6
2 0-1 Four-Seamer (89) Milton Bradley singled to left field, advancing the runner to third. 6 6
2 1-2 Cutter (88) Ryan Klesko struck out. 6 6
0 runs, 2 hits, 0 errors, and 2 left on base. 6 6

Top of the Fifteenth (Mariners) Score
Outs Count Pitch (MPH) Huston Street came in to pitch for the Athletics. Runners SEA OAK
0 1-0 Fastball (89) Raul Ibanez lined out to short. 6 6
1 1-0 Fastball (91) Richie Sexson homered over the right field fence. 7 6
1 1-2 Fastball (88) Ben Broussard popped up to short. 7 6
2 2-2 Slider (81) Jose Guillen grounded to third. 7 6
1 run, 1 hit, 0 errors, and 0 left on base. 7 6

Bottom of the Fifteenth (Athletics) Score
Outs Count Pitch (MPH) Arthur Rhodes on the mound for the Mariners. Runners SEA OAK
0 3-2 Four-Seamer (92) Nick Swisher walked. 7 6
0 1-2 Cutter (88) Victor Martinez doubled into the left field corner. 7 6
The Mariners brought the infield in.
0 0-1 Four-Seamer (90) Phil Nevin flied out to right. 7 6
Nick Swisher tagged up and reached home, scoring a run. 7 7
1 0-1 Change (77) Dan Johnson grounded to short. 7 7
Adam Melhuse pinch hit for Huston Street.
2 0-2 Cutter (87) Adam Melhuse struck out. 7 7
1 run, 1 hit, 0 errors, and 1 left on base. 7 7

Top of the Sixteenth (Mariners) Score
Outs Count Pitch (MPH) Akinori Otsuka came in to pitch for the Athletics. Runners SEA OAK
0 0-0 Splitter (84) Adrian Beltre singled to right. 7 7
Adrian Beltre stole second. 7 7
0 0-2 Splitter (84) Kenji Johjima flied out to left. 7 7
1 0-1 Splitter (84) Adrian Beltre grounded to the pitcher. 7 7
2 1-1 Splitter (87) Ichiro Suzuki flied out to right. 7 7
0 runs, 1 hit, 0 errors, and 1 left on base. 7 7

Bottom of the Sixteenth (Athletics) Score
Outs Count Pitch (MPH) Chris Tillman came in to pitch for the Mariners. Runners SEA OAK
0 1-1 Fastball (94) Jason Kendall singled through the right side. 7 7
0 0-0 Fastball (94) Barry Bonds lined out to left. 7 7
1 3-2 Fastball (92) Milton Bradley singled to center field, advancing the runner to third. 7 7
The Mariners brought the infield in.
1 2-2 Fastball (90) Ryan Klesko struck out. 7 7
Milton Bradley took second on defensive indifference. 7 7
2 3-0 Fastball (95) Nick Swisher walked, scoring a run. 7 8
ATHLETICS WIN: 8-7 7 9


When I pinch hit for Bobby Crosby, the pitcher came in to bat, also Adrian Beltre all of a sudden replaces Vidro in the ninth spot and he bats 7th and 9th.

[BTerran]

Whenever I put in a defensive sub for a catcher, this bug is always trigger :/

[Balooster]

When I play in one-pitch mode during PBP, I sometimes have the following problem. When I put in a defensive replacement for a position player, I sometimes lose that player and they put the pithcer into his spot. I'm using the AL so I have a DH. I'm not replacing the DH. Sadly, it doesn't happen everytime, it happens about half the time. Just in case it matters, it usually happens when I remove my #9 hitter (a young Cal Ripken) for a pinch hitter and then try to replace the pinch hitter with my backup shortstop (Domingo Ramos) or when I simply try to replace Cal Ripken when the other team is atbat with Domingo Ramos. The DH is still listed in the line-up at DH and thus in the case of Ramos for Ripken, I have no SS that I can see and Ramos isn't on the bench anymore either (so I've lost the fielder or the DH is playing SS, but I can't tell).

The only other time it happened was when I replaced a catcher with a defensive replacement. The problem only occurs when the other team is batting and if I had pinch hit with a guy, he'll be at the position when my team takes the field. But if I try to make the defensive adjustment, it sometimes puts the pitcher in.

In case it matters, I started in 1978 with the Yankees and I'm currently in 1979. I didn't see this problem mentioned in the forum, but if it was and I'm repeating a known problem, I apologize.

Mark

[PDog]

When I am on D. and I want to put a replacement in:

I have Helton in
I want to put Sosa in. I will then make the change and after I get done my batter order will would like this:

Batting 8: Who ever my pitcher is in.
(I have DH on the AL/NL)

[ohms_law]

Yea...

[outraged]

To reproduce this bug, play a game in play by play mode. Click on a player in the lineup to bring up the defensive substitution window. Double click a bench player to pull up their scouting report. Their scouting report is not displayed, instead the player above them is displayed.

[rockiesfan4ever]

I was playing (1901) and I took a guy out for a Defensive Replacement and then in the 9th I PH for my P with the guy I took out for the DR in the 1st inning.

[WoodbineWolves]

setup - Playing PBP - manager , American League, DH

my 2B is batting in #1 slot - he gets on and I pinch run an outfielder. When my half of the inning is over - put 2b from my bench in to #1 slot, all of a sudden my pitcher is in the # 1 slot and then tries to bat..... See attached file.

When I look at the defensive screen, it shows everything correctly

help!

[BTerran]

I think I found a weird stopgap fix and I'm hoping someone else could try it out and tell me if it works for them.

Basically I'm playing as the Blue Jays in the Bottom of the 8th (at home) and swap McDonald (playing 3B) out for Stairs. The top of the 9th comes along and I want to swap Clayton for Stairs as a defensive replacement so I go into the Defensive Substitution screen and I try it. I see the batting order displayed on the left hand side switch go all buggy which is the typical calling card for "your pitcher is going to bat". Instead of accepting it I click undo and all goes back to normal. Now for the heck of it I try subbing in Clayton for Stairs again and the batting order still looks fine, I hit okay and the defensive sub was accepted without error.

So the order of events is:
1) Do the defensive sub but don't hit Done.
2) Hit Undo
3) Repeat the defensive sub and this time hit Done.

I'm going to try doing this again in different scenarios but if anyone else can successfully replicate this then it'd go a long way to confirming this is an actual solution until the bug can be fixed.

Edit: I've tried this several times now and it always seems to work.

[WoodbineWolves]

I tried BTerran's stopgap, and it seemed to work

[Clay Dreslough]

I'm desperately trying to find the version of this bug that DOESN'T involve the double switch. Specifically, when playing an AL team and you pinch hit for a player (let's say the catcher) and then you put a defensive sub in for him (the backup catcher) at the start of the next inning.

In the bug as reported, the pitcher gets inserted into the lineup, even though the pitcher shouldn't be batting.

Many folks have said this occurs "50% of the time" or "very frequently" but I've been unable to reproduce it after about an hour of testing. I'm probably missing a key step -- like maybe it only happens to relief pitchers.

If you have specific steps for reproducing it, please post them. If I can reproduce the steps exactly from the very start of the universe (for example, step one should be "Start a New Game in 2007 with the default options") that would be a big help.

Otherwise, maybe someone can post a .mog file of the game saved in a state where a defensive substitution causes this bug to show up.

Thanks!

Clay

[Clay Dreslough]

Update: I'm able to reproduce it with relief pitchers, but never with starters. Still working on it.

So, I probably don't need those reproduction steps anymore.

Thx,

Clay

[Rovy]

Hmm, I'll keep a good eye out for this bug Clay, see what #'s I come up with, when, who, etc etc.