How long should starters pitch, (in BM)?

[Rongar]

Messrs Ohms and TacoBoy having kindly informed my ignorance about "Quality Starts" i.e. 3 earned runs or less, after 6 completed innings or more, in a particular game started by a pitcher, I now wonder when to take my guy off the mound?

Up til recently, in PBP, as long as he was not getting shelled, I let him get five completed innings in, to:-

(a) Enable him to be the pitcher of record, in the event of a win for his team

(b) Ensure that he doesn't tire, and get knocked about by those nasty rough hitters, later

(c) Limit the number of "rest days" that he will need to get back to max efficiency.

(d) Give some other pitchers in my pen an inning of relief (no rest days incurred for an inning, or less as long as the pitcher doesn't get lit up in that time), to give me some idea of their form, and for them to aqcuire nice-looking E.R.A.s

Lately, however, after inadvertently allowing one of my starters to go beyond the fifth -I really must learn to count some day! - and noticing that he didn't incur any more "rest days" for pitching 6 inninngs, rather than 5, I intended to, in future, let him go to six, so long as I felt comfortable in his skin...for in my favourite PBP "Player" mode, I'm the one doing the pitching, and while some pitchers one could simulate forever, others need a lot of anxious scrambling to keep the scoring down to a dull roar.

Trouble is, after the 5th inning, the pitcher's batting slot comes around in the next ups...do I let him stay in to continue a good job, or insert a batter in a "tight" game i.e. no one's lead is in double digits, yet ?

Before I knew about quality starts, I wouldn't have thought twice about removing him after five innings...now to do so, would deprive him of this distinction...tell you what - I don't care! - 'cos he don't...one way or 'tother:)

[ohms_law]

Personally, I think pitching starters 5 innings is the way to go. It's up to you though.

The 6 innings requirement for a "quality start" is somewhat arbitrary, although it's stood up well to some analysis. Leaving pitchers in for 6 just to ensure that they receive a quality start isn't the smartest thing to do though, in my opinion. It doesn't really make much of a different whether or not a pitcher get's 0 QS or 30 QS in a season. His pitching is still the same, you know?

ps.: the suggestions forum is more for making suggestions for the game itself. That's why I've moved this to General Discussions.

[JayC]

Trouble is, after the 5th inning, the pitcher's batting slot comes around in the next ups...do I let him stay in to continue a good job, or insert a batter in a "tight" game i.e. no one's lead is in double digits, yet ?
What's more important, winning games or racking up essentially worthless individual stats? Ask any real-life managers whether they'd pinch hit for the pitcher given that choice, and the answer would be unanimous. I'd be surprised if any manager even gives a moment of thought to the "quality start" statistic.

But this is just a game without big money on the line. So your priorities might be different from theirs.

Personally, I do try to keep my starters in for six if they're being effective (but I'm in the AL so I'm not as often faced with that dreaded pitcher's slot coming up). I like to avoid overworking my bullpen or being caught short if a game goes deep into extra innings. But to me I'm making the decision based on what I think will result in more wins over the long haul, not on anybody's individual statistics.

[RickD]

I go at least 5 unless he is getting hammered. If the game is even and or my team is ahead after 5 I will let him go up to 100 pitches if he has not done so. I will even let him complete a game if his pitch count is low enough. I don't want to tax my bullpen like the Yanks are doing in real life!

[SF_Giants]

I od'nt PBP but i have setting and when i do i usually want my starters going 7+ innings if they can handle it.

[eecheerow]

I try to keep mine in for 7 and stay around the 100 pitch mark when i can. Though in this game, there doesn't seem to be much of an endurance penalty like there would be in real life (my only small gripe with the game, as I'd like to see the chance of them getting shelled a lot higher once they get past their endurance stat in pitches and when they pitch on short rest). Most present managers would love to have their starters go a good 7 and keep their team in the ballgame so they can setup and close and save their bullpen pitchers when they can.

[SF_Giants]

there is a penalty though. IE I had a guy named Juan Gomez(20 something pitcher) with 89 endurence. In the first game i played he pitched ~120 pitches before he just tanked(back to back HR). The next game he was on a roll and made it through about 135-140 pitches and got a CG, despite struggling through the 9th.

why mention this? Bascially Clay has said(IIRC) that pitchers can pitch up to their endurence(IE 89) and then they slowly start to loose it as they go past that untill they get probably 30-40 pitches past then they just well suck. But it depends too, if they are Hot they can usually go longer if they just don't have it that day they can't go as long.

[RickD]

Just like in real life!

[ohms_law]

why mention this? Bascially Clay has said(IIRC) that pitchers can pitch up to their endurence(IE 89) and then they slowly start to loose it as they go past that untill they get probably 30-40 pitches past then they just well suck. But it depends too, if they are Hot they can usually go longer if they just don't have it that day they can't go as long.


Just like in real life!

Yup, exactly.
:)

[Rongar]

What's more important, winning games or racking up essentially worthless individual stats?

JayC, Much as I would like to boast in these forums of a bullpen full of complete; saved; games won with lotsa innings pitched with irreducible ERAs,
my (rhetorical) question "Trouble is, after the 5th inning, the pitcher's batting slot comes around in the next ups...do I let him stay in to continue a good job, or insert a batter in a "tight" game ?" is, purely, one of strategy ...who do I trust most in this situation? The starter on the mound, now? The reliever throwing in the pen? The batter sitting on the bench?

The question is "rhetorical" because as you and Ohms point out, the answer can only be known to me...and I won't know until the question arises in a game.:confused:

[bjohn13]

This is going to be a question best answered by a manager's personal preference.

I tend to spend a lot of money on my starting pitchers. They are the lifeblood of my team, and if I have less than 4 who are capable of pitching 7 innings day in, day out, I feel like I have a poor team. On the same token, I rely on late inning matchups with my bullpen a lot. I like to have one long relief guy, and I like the rest of my bullpen to be guys that are going to come in to record one or two outs at a time. It's not uncommon to see me cram 5 pitchers into my last two innings of work. I have a tendancy to burn out bullpens very quickly if my starters aren't averaging more than 6 innings a start.

To the original question, in this game, as well as in real life, knowing when to pull a starter is an art. More than once, I've gotten myself stuck by letting my starter hit in the top of the 6th just to see him get shellacked in the bottom of the 6th, and it is the 6th inning at bats that hurt the most. If it's the 7th, and I'm in doubt, I just pull him. In the 6th, though, I have that added desire to get my starter an extra inning simply due to the long term benefit it will provide my team.

I've actually found that pitching management so far in mogul mode has been a great enjoyment for me in this game, and I've also found that my success as a team is almost solely dependent on it. I can usually win enough to be in the race if I can make all the right pitching decisions regardless of how bad the rest of my team is.