pitch types / arm angles in csv

[MeetDaMets]

Pasted (way) below is a list of arm angles and pitch types as found in pitchratings.csv. I was interested in scoping out the acceptable syntax for all pitch types. Quite impressed with the pitch diversity but I now find myself curious to discern the difference between apparently synonymous pitches.
for example the csv file uses all of the following

Rising Fastball,Sinking Fastball,Four-Seamer,Two-Seamer

a rising fast ball is a four seamer so ... ?? and
a sinking fastball is a 2 seamer so ??
are the 2 acceptable terms actually describing the same pitch or
are they 2 subtle variations of the same pitch ?
Are they just there so the same pitch uses the appropriate years vernacular ?

another interesting example are that all 3 of these are correct in the csv
this cracks me up :)

Change,Changeup,Change Up

are these pitchers 1 mile an hour slower than each another or ? :D

similiarly , i think at least 4 or 5 of the curve ball types
that i thought really describe the 12-6 curve.
So i cant help but wonder why all the terms would be correct syntax :)
anyways,
more general info can be found at sportsmogul.com/pitches
(sir kodiaks guide is great so is the neyer / james book.)
and of course pg 10 of the manual - which lists an out shoot but one cannot be found in the csv, though i did find outcurve :confused: lol


Having a correct list is quite handy , i think .
hope it helps some1
found some really intriguing specialty pitches too.
and anything that gets my irish up about the subtle differences (if any) between the short curve and a slurve is :cool:

Please add any other acceptable pitch types/arm angles i may have missed.
:)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

arm angle types as listed in pitchratings.csv

Overhand
Underhand
Varied
Submarine
Three Quarters
Sidearm

pitch types as listed in pitchratings.csv

Fastball,Rising Fastball,Sinking Fastball,Four-Seamer,Two-Seamer
Splitter,Split Fingered Fastball,Cut Fastball,Cutter,
Sneaky Fastball,Boring Fastball,Tailing Fastball
Heater
Sinker
Riser

Knuckleball,Knuckle Curve,Slow Knuckler

Curve,Sidearm Curve,Outcurve,Sharp Curve
12-6 Curve,Overhand Curve,Slow Curve,Big Curve,
Hard Curve,Fadeaway,Roundhouse,
Drop Curve,Drop,Drop Ball

Short Curve
Slurve

Slider,Hard Slider,Frisbee Slider

Change,Changeup,Change Up,Vulcan Change
Circle Change,Slow Ball,Slow Change
Palmball
Forkball
Fosh Ball
Fosh Change

Screwball

Inshoot,Fast Inshoot

Pogo Pitch,Blooper,Eephus,Gyroball,Slip Pitch

Spitball,Scuffball,Dry Spitball,Slow Spitter

[ohms_law]

Check out: SirKodiak's Pitch Guide (http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthread.php?t=107020) which is stickied to the top of this forum.

[MeetDaMets]

i had looked there and searched on pitch type and syntax but didnt come up with anything that specifically addressed the pitches listed in the csv.

the question is not about the understanding of seemingly synonymous pitches in general,

but rather

why does pitchrating.csv use several acceptable terms that appear to be synonymous.

i know that a 4 seamer and a Rising fastball are the same thing so why does the csv file have both terms ?

similiarly change,change up and changeup are all
correct syntax in the csv.

stated slightly differently
if i give my pitcher those as his 1 2 3 pitches
is he getting 3 of the exact same change up
or
3 subtle variations of the same thing.

there is no need for the game file to have multiple terms to describe the same action ,
so there has to be a reason behind it.

either for era/pitcher appropriate vernacular
(kaat had a pitch he called "short curve" , everyone else calls this a "slurve")
or
there is a slight variation within bbm for these pitches.

[ohms_law]

Variety? I don't really know, as I've never looked that deeply at it. Variety would be my guess, though.

[MeetDaMets]

Its certainly curious.

ive now noticed

the csv lists seaver with a rising fastball and sinking fastball
but
when one uses him in game he has a four-seamer and a two-seamer.

the list i posted is all correct syntax for the pitchratings.csv
Im really shocked at the variety of pitches and especially the specialty pitches.

ive gotta go find out what in the heck a "pogo pitch" looks like :eek:

thats a new one on me.

[MeetDaMets]

i suppose i should have prefaced all of this by pointing out that list of pitches presented when one uses editor is not identical whats found in pitchratings.csv

example - 1946 si johnson of the phillies has a pitch that in pitchratings.csv
is listed as "pogo pitch". this pitch cannot be selected from the editor.
si johnson is the only player listed in pitchratings.csv to have this pitch.
when one chooses the 46 phils and selects him to pitch ,
one sees that si johnson pitch choices do not include pogo pitch.
it is "sidearm curve"
which when one clicks on edit player this same pitch is "roundhouse curve"

i find this a bit confusing. if there is nothing unique about "pogo pitch" why bother to insure the code knows to translate it to present a text display of "sidearm curve", while using the code "roundhouse curve"

[ohms_law]

if there is nothing unique about "pogo pitch" why bother to insure the code knows to translate it to present a text display of "sidearm curve", while using the code "roundhouse curve"
From the sounds of your description the program does not know how to "translate it", and it's choosing the nearest pitch available.

[marc420]

It does seem to have a slight effect on the game. A batter usually only has their plus\minus rating on one of the names. So two pitches throwing basically identical pitches have different chance of getting a hitter out because they call the pitches two different names.

[Reade]

there is no need for the game file to have multiple terms to describe the same action ,
so there has to be a reason behind it.


It has something to do with what era of baseball you are in. They called a pitch one thing in the early 1900's and something else in the 1950's and something else again in the 1980's

[Rongar]

and anything that gets my irish up about the subtle differences (if any) between the short curve and a slurve is :cool:



In pitch-by-pitch mode, the difference is that the virtual batters seem to like the curve-ball, but that they are highly vulnerable to the slurve.

My impression is from habitually playing p-by-p is that the slightest variation in speed; and/or movement; and/or location justifies the categorization of a pitch...it doesn't take much to throw off a BM batter's timing - a coupla mph speed difference, an inch or two movement lateral or vertical swing; swerve; or sway thro the air, a totally different part of the plate from the previous pitch, etc.

Ergo, it seems to me that all the pitches quoted do have their reason for existing.