40 Man Roster

[georgefc3]

From what I understand, baseball has 2 major limits on rosters.

The first is the one that most of us understand. This is the normal 25 man roster.

There is also a 40 man roster. Basically, as I understand it, is that there are 40 guys who are designated as either major league or possible major league players. Basically there are only 15 minor leaguers that can play in the majors. If you go beyond this roster, you must release one of the other 40 players.

Can you explain this rule? I find it pretty confusing.

Also, does BBM plan to implement this rule? Currently a player can have up to 70 players, any of whom can be in minors or majors.

I'm not sure this would add anything to the game, just interested in what you guys have to say.

Thanks!

[takaplan]

I don't think we plan to add this to the game. There has been discussion about this, but the general belief is that it would add so much complexity to the game and could make the game way to confusing and complex for the casual player.

It is possible, though, that this could be added in the future if we can make it so it is pretty easy to use and doesn't turn the game into a micromanagement simulation.

[georgefc3]

Tom

That's fine. I would WAY rather have the game be fun and easy to play.

By the way, BBM is set up to allow 30 pitchers and 40 hitters. That is quite a few...

Any thoughts of changing this? My thought is that the last 5 guys of each type probably don't add much to the team and adds complexity.

Thanks for responding so quickly.

:)

[takaplan]

That's an interesting point. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has comments on the size of the maximum rosters.

[Seiryuu]

my thought on this topic is that the large number of AAA players available in BBMO is a significant advantage for the larger market teams. Because we don't have a waiver wire, the large market teams are able to stock up on ball players who would have normally been returned to the free agent market if they had more roster restrictions. It also means that players close to retirement spend a "few" more seasons aging in the minors before they finally retire. It would be nice if we could spread the wealth more in regards to major league quality players.... I believe that we would see fewer teams winning only 30 games in a season if more players were returned to free agency rather then stewing in the minors.

[Cipster]

It would be much better if there was a tighter limit on the numbers of players in the minors. Right now CPU teams sign everyone in sight and pile up Major League caliber players in their minors for no good reason (in 2002 and Beyond for example Adrian Beltre is making 21 points per season in AAA for the past 2 seasons). Normally a player with enough Major League experience can refuse to go to AAA and become a free agent.

I know you think that adding more complexity to the game would scare away some people but you could just add it as a different difficulty level and call it "Play with MLB roster Rules".

Given the amount of Strategy games out there that emphasize realism and micro management I really doubt that there would not be a market out there for people that prefer that sort of game.

[ervinn]

Given the amount of Strategy games out there that emphasize realism and micro management I really doubt that there would not be a market out there for people that prefer that sort of game. - Cipster

Ditto !!!

[georgefc3]

Tom

I think we need to make a distinction between the CD-ROM and online games.

CD ROM
In the CD-Rom version the number of players could be set a LOT lower. I tend to fill my rosters pretty quickly. Then it's a matter of identifying and keeping the best talent. I try to load up my team with quality rookies signed under long term contract. This is easy to do. So I end up with 9 high quality position players, 5 decent bench players and 26 rookies in various stages of development. For pitchers, there would be 11 starters and relievers and 19 rookies in various stages of development.

This leads to a lot of housework each year as contracts come up for renewal. Some players don't develop the way you want to. I sell them for cash.

Bottom line, it would not hurt the game, in my opinion, if you cut the overall roster size.

Note: This strategy is possible because computer does not know how to trade properly.

Online Game
In the online game things are quite a bit different. In the league I'm playing in, trading with the computer is not allowed. So it is a lot harder to get quality rookies. The easiest way to acquire players is through the free agent draft. Many players in the draft go cheap. This happens for a variety of reasons. Basically the draft is an auction that happens over a period of days. And a lot of players cannot be on the computer the whole time bidding on every player that comes up. Usually they have a short list of players that they want. And there is a large list of players availalbe. So if you [me] have roster positions open and the time to scout out the talent and the money to pay for these guys...

So....

Players who use this strategy can stock up on good quality players in the draft. And then trade these guys as the season wears on. Or keep them tucked in the minors waiting for them to develop.

I think that reducing roster size at least a little on the online game would be a good thing. I would ask the whole membership though. Other guys might disagree with me.

[ervinn]

I don't understand why you need to make a distinction between the online game and the cd-rom game if you are going to come to the same conclusion - reducing roster size - for each one.

As for myself, I don't think I'll be going on about this much more, if at all. Sports Mogul have indicated they want a simple game. Part and parcel to that makeup is apparently a huge roster. I beg to differ.

MLB Roster Rules (http://rangers.siegler.net/roster/rosterrules.html) would be more exciting in my opinion. What has drawn me to a baseball sim is that I have enjoyed watching Major League Baseball and thought it would be exciting to play a baseball management sim. Currently Baseball Mogul is closer to Backyard Baseball than Major League Baseball.

I would enjoy MLB roster rules. After all, what came first, Major League Baseball or Baseball Mogul? Listen up now, it's Major League Baseball I love. Baseball Mogul is merely an expression of that. Although it is a SIMPLE one.

Cheers for now,

Ervin

ervinn
montreal extinct
league daily normal 1

[georgefc3]

Ervin

You're right that Major League baseball limits their rosters to 40 players. However part of baseball is the minor leages. Most baseball teams have AAA baseball teams, AA baseball teams an A baseball teams. It actually is more complicated than that. But you get the picture.

BBM has designed a game that simulates the decisions of the baseball front office. This is decisions made by the general manager and by inference, the owners. Part of their responsibility is not only Major League baseball but minor leatue baseball as well.

Other games, such as HIGH HEAT BASEBALL also include minor league players in their games. In High Heat, you are responsble for the rosters for 1 Major league team and 3 minor league teams. This is a total of up to 100 players. Let me tell you this is a lot of work if you want to do it well.

Baseball Mogul has done a better job of this than HIGH HEAT. I like being able to choose and help develop minor league talent. The question is, where should the dividing line be?

My opinion is that a smaller roster that 40 hitters and 30 pitchers would be ok and desirable. But my opinion is just that - one opinion. There are a lot of people who play BBM CD-ROM and BBM Online and Clay and Tom need to think of their entire customer/fan base, not just the musings of one little guy in St. Louis.

So...

I respect your opinion. It sounds like you agree with me, basically. Except that you think the roster limit should be 40 rather than my opinion, which is 55 or 60. And the current limit is 70.

So we really are not too much in disagreement. But...

We are still only two voices. Hopefully a poll will be taken and though given to what we've said. The important thing is that the game and gameres experience be improved by whatever changes are made....

:D

[ervinn]

Yes, I would like to see MLB roster rules implemented in Baseball Mogul. I would also like to see A, AA and AAA teams implemented. Read a previous post of mine (http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=10756&perpage=15&pagenumber=2) to see what I've been thinking. Th hiring of staff to manage the minor league teams would, in my humble opionion, enhance the game. Not so?

Cheers for now,

Ervin

ervinn
montreal extinct
league daily normal 1

[georgefc3]

Ervin

You write "Th hiring of staff to manage the minor league teams would, in my humble opionion, enhance the game. Not so?"

Ummmm..... Well....

It's an interesting point of view. From where I sit, it's a lot more detail than I want to go into. If you like that idea, I suggest you try HIGH HEAT baseball. Seriously. They have three teams to manage.

From my point of view, this basically ended up being more work than fun. And if I'm doing work, I'd like to get paid for it!

Still, it's an idea worth considering. Tom or Clay, do you have any thoughts you'd like to share?

Thanks!


:cool:

[ervinn]

I suggest you try HIGH HEAT baseball. Seriously. They have three teams to manage. -- georgefc3

George, you either didn't read what I wrote or you didn't understand me. Hopefully, I can clarify my point of view.

I want control of a MLB team with real MLB roster rules and the ability to give each player individual assignments.

I don't want to manage three teams any more than I want to work three jobs. Which, in case I'm losing you, I don't want to do.

The reality is this is probably a waste of my time because it's not going to happen. I don't believe it's strictly because the game is intended to be simple. If you've followed the game since the beginning you'll see it hasn't changed much at all since then. Just recently, in fact, some of the spelling and grammatical mistakes that have been in the news and scouting reports for 5+ years were corrected. Many still exist. For all their apparent love of baseball - or business if you want - they don't appear to have a very big budget for programmers.

Baseball Mogul is a good entry level game though and the success it has achieved has been deserved.

Cheers,

Ervin

ervinn
montreal extinct
league daily normal 1

[ervinn]

, if you want to take shots at the game -- takaplan

It seems a guy can't say anything without sugar-coating it anymore. How do you want me to put it if simply stating my opinions - without malice - upsets you?

There are mistakes in the game. If this upsets you I don't owe you an apology. I'm also not taking shots at the game. I'm not here to troll or to get a rise out of anyone.

If you can point out that anything I've said about the game is not true or malicious you are welcome to do so. I can assure you I know how I feel about the game. I feel that your perception might be out of wack a bit. Indeed, if it was all about perception where in blazes would we all be? Probably in a cult of some kind. I'm not prepared to be a Baseball Mogul Skinhead. So, I'm sorry if that's what you were hoping for.

In the meantime, I will enjoy playing Baseball Mogul as it is. If my suggestions of how the game would be improved - for my liking - receives responses such as the one from you, likening me to a troll like William4192 then censor my posts - if you feel it necessary. Intimidation won't work.

To whom it may concern, I am disappointed by your response.

Ervin

ervinn
montreal extinct
league daily normal 1

[georgefc3]

But

Remember there are hundreds and maybe thousands of BBM players.

Any dramatic change will inevitably upset some people. I think the people at BBM have a fine product. Does it have flaws? Obviously....

But when dealing with programming issues, it is important to focus on the important points. And you need to think of your customer base in broad terms. One (BBM) cannot and should not make major changes if these changes are not accepted by their customers.

Now....

I think your ideas are interesting. But please remember, both you and I are each only one person in the BBM universe. And we don't work with Tom and Clay. Even though BBM is a successful product, they, I'm sure, need to be careful where they direct their programming resources.

Now, I try to think about this when I make suggestions. And I try also to keep in mind that even though I may like an idea, it may be rejected. These reasons I may not understand. But I keep in mind that both Tom and Clay have been very responsive. I believe, truly, that they listen to what we write on this board. I believe they sift through the ideas and try to change what they can.

Also, I am a programmer, so I have an understanding of what is involved in making changes!! [Not easy, usually].

So... I would ask you to think about these things and be understanding when your ideas are not embraced.

:D

[misterblond]

Not the first time -somebody- has overreacted to a post. Simmer down kid, and let people speak their minds.


Note - No personal attacks, guys... - James