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Clay Dreslough
08-29-2001, 03:17 PM
Baseball Mogul Online Beta Testers,

I'm posting to announce some recent changes to Baseball Mogul Online, implemented to address issues brought to our attention by beta testers. I apologize for the lack of warning. I tried to get an e-mail sent out last night (at about 4:30 after getting the new code launched).

Here are some of the problems revealed by the beta test, and our current solution. Please praise or criticize these solutions on the boards (http://forum.sportsmogul.com/forumdisplay.php3?s=&forumid=44) (or directly to me (clay@sportsmogul.com)). We need this feedback to build the best possible game.

1) Offseason free agent bidding was awkward. I tried to design a system that would create an auction environment while still allowing players to be signed early in the off-season, as in real life. But some free agents were disappearing before everyone had a chance to bid on them.

Solution: Create a new system where free agents don't sign until the next simulation, no matter how much they are offered. Also, add a 'Max Bid' option so you can protect against being outbid while you are a away from your computer. (This new system is described at http://www-1.sportsmogul.com/bb/Help/Free_Agents.htm -- please let me know if this page confuses you, as I'd like to make it as clear as possible).

2) Players were gaining an unfair advantage by signing the best free agents to huge long-term contracts. Although the teams ended up deep in debt, the long-term contracts allowed them to have a dominant team for many years. This strategy is leading to a great disparity in a lot of leagues, where a team might win 100 games and still be 15 games out of the wild card race. In present day baseball, a team with 90+ wins usually has a decent chance at a playoff spot.

Solution: Create a 'Payroll Limit' based on your projected revenue. Add 25% of your team's Cash to this Payroll Limit (so that teams can build up Cash and then blow it all on a run for the pennant, within reason). Teams above this 'Payroll Limit' are still able make trades, and sign contract extensions, but they are unable to sign Free Agents.

This is not a "salary cap" per se. It represents guidelines created by the league to keep thing competitive and prevent teams from getting buried in debt. Note that we wanted to have some leeway with the Payroll Limit, so we intentionally left open some loopholes. For example, you can raise your Payroll Limit by cutting your expenses. Then, after you've signed a free agent, you can return your expenses to your desired level.

3) Many players were e-mailing me because their team had fallen deep into debt (or they inherited a team in debt) and they couldn't dig their way out.

Solution: This is related to #2, except that the excessive payrolls were occuring by accident. With guaranteed contracts, it's not easy to dig a team out of a hole like this, so we felt the Payroll Limit system would help prevent problems like this in the first place. Moreoever, we added a 'Budget' entry to several screens. This 'Budget' number doesn't restrict your team, but it does give a clear indication of where your team's budget should fall if you wish to stay in the black.

4) Small market teams have a severe disadvantage. This isn't as much of a problem in the CD-ROM game where you only have to outsmart 29 computer GMs to climb to the top. But in a multiplayer league, it takes a lot of fun out of playing. Although we implemented a scoring system (http://www-1.sportsmogul.com/bb/Help/Scoring.htm) to address this, most people don't play this game for "Mogul Points", they play for a chance to "win it all".

Solution: Raise the revenue of small market teams, and lower the revenue of large market teams. Because these changes were made at the same time that I added the Payroll Limit, some of the big market teams are going to be put in a tough position. But they should be able to trade some of their expensive players to the poorer teams that now have a bit more to spend.

I'm sorry if these changes caught you off guard -- I made the decision to squeeze these changes in before Labor Day and that may not have been the best decision. Thanks again for your effort in beta testing this product.

Sincerely,

Clay Dreslough
President
Sports Mogul Inc.
clay@sportsmogul.com
www.sportsmogul.com

Clay Dreslough
08-29-2001, 03:22 PM
As I mentioned above, I am tweaking the financial engine to create more game balance. In the process, it looks like I may have actually reduced the revenue of ALL teams, not just big-market teams. Obviously, this is a major problem.

So, I'm in the process of investigating this and providing a fix as soon as possible.

Clay

dougummel
08-29-2001, 03:27 PM
Clay,

I love the bidding thing in the offseason. A really good way to do it. However, there is an issue that you might want to take a look at in conjunction with the new "spending limits."

With this change (which I will reserve judgement on for the moment until we see how it works in a season or two) you may want to modify the free agent demands of some players.

For example in FastSim 6 Roosevelt Brown is asking for a ludicrous amount:

RooseveltBrown Free Agent

Center Fielder

Contact A+ Arm B- 31 years old
Power A- Range A+ Tenth season
Speed B+ Fielding B- Seeking 225 points
Eye B+ Health B through 2013

Roosevelt is perhaps the best center fielder in the game today.


He better be for that amount. My point is that with the new salary restraints, there is not a team out there that would be able to sign him even if they wanted to.

There are plenty of other examples out there too. Probably 8-12 players asking over 100 per year with several over 130.

Even being the Yankees, I hope that the salary thing works, guys!

nevets72
08-29-2001, 03:48 PM
Clay,

You guys are doing a great job. I am sure you have already thought about it, but if this Payroll Limit is going to go forward I see a potential problem. Alot of quality players are going to fall out of the game. I have seen from the sims I have been in that players like Vlad and Alou never get picked up due to large contract demands. I even have a "big" market team and could not "slide" these guys into my budget. By reducing the income on the big markets will help even out the experience, it may cause a disjointed game. Again, I like the change.

I also will restate that these changes should be on a choice basis going into the pay for play version. I personally will be in the "equality" version, but some others would not like it.

On last thing, I have noticed that it is almost impossible to get real quality relievers. Case and Point, Mariano Rivera has recorded 3.00 plus ERAs in the sims I have been in. It also seems that every reliever I have is horribly incosistent. I know you already have a ton on your plate, but it is something that irks me a bit.

Steve

amount
08-29-2001, 04:13 PM
I posted elsewhere, rashly, that I thought the salary limit was ridiculous. After reading Clay's justification for the changes, I have to say that I think they're for the best; it seems like a good compromise, making the game more balanced without taking away all of the disparity that makes the game fun. I don't want to play in a entirely "balanced" league, but I think it's a good idea to decrease the disparity between rich and poor somewhat; in one league I'm in, we've had teams win 120 games and not make the playoffs beacuse there are teams winning near to 130. My Boston team is loaded with stars, a payroll of 900+, and I'm still banking close to 100 pts per year; even in the real world, I don't think that's quite the case. I am a bit concerned, however, that my Detroit team seems to have had it's revenue reduced; isn't Detroit with a payroll of under 300 near the bottom?

At any rate, I'm excited to see how these changes work out, and thanks to Clay and the guys for working so hard.

Anthony

Clay Dreslough
08-29-2001, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by amount
I posted elsewhere, rashly, that I thought the salary limit was ridiculous.

Anthony

I have confirmed that I introduced a bug that reduced revenue for ALL teams about 25%+. It makes sense that these changes are going to be received badly if, in addition to adding a new payroll limit for signing free agents, I also make that limit unrealistically low for almost everyone.

Once I get this fixed, we can see how the actual game improvements play out...

Clay

Clay Dreslough
08-29-2001, 06:22 PM
It's 6:21 EST on Wednesday. We just posted a new version with revised revenue projections for every team. Sorry about the bug.

Clay

Phlint
08-29-2001, 08:07 PM
thanks for all your hard work on this. bugs and all--this is a great game!! A baseball addict like me could only dream of something like this to do in the off season!
I like what you have done with the budgets. that was the clincher for me.
by the way--if you ever quit doing this league i will never forgive you.

Have a nice day :)

Phlint

redkardinal
08-29-2001, 09:07 PM
I would like to first say that I am happy with the changes. I for one like the equality version better.
I have one question for anyone who can answer it. When bidding on free agents and you have the high bid and the next sim comes along do you still have to click on the sign button to sign that free agent. I hope this is not the case because I don't have the time to wait aroung for the next sim to just click on the sign button. :confused:

John
08-29-2001, 09:28 PM
As soon as the red bar fills you have the player. No need to press the sign button. The player will be at the bottom of your AAA roster.:)

Farsight
08-30-2001, 07:15 AM
Hey Clay,

The Limit is a nice addition to the system, although I'd still greatly prefer an option to run a league where teams are even financially...

One bug (I think)... I know you can drop your farm/scouting/medical budget to increase your spending limit... but shouldn't the limit go back down if you put those expenses back up where they were? Currently this doesn't happen, so I could drop my farm costs by 30 to add that to my Limit, then raise my farm costs back up by 30, and my limit stays 30 points higher... ???

rdale
08-30-2001, 04:10 PM
In FAST3 with the Yankees, I have projected revenue of 828, projected expenses of 810, cash of 40, and a payroll of 712.

However the budget limit for me is 410?!? Therefore I can't sign any free agents, although looking at the fact that I'm going to be earning more cash I sure can afford it.

Any help?

Rob

Gar Weber
08-31-2001, 04:26 AM
clay, i don't mean to bee to blunt/rude, but this was a stupid idea.

i joined the first 3 betas, and i could have had big market teams in all 3 if i had wanted. i took a big market team, a small market team, and a medium team. the fact that you are changing the money sistem totally ruins ALL of my games. i only picked those teams because they all have different challenges...

i WANTED a small market team as oneof my teams, you know?

Farsight
08-31-2001, 06:01 AM
Are you just looking to get flamed?

I mean, that was a completely blunt, rude, and unconstructive post... This is a BETA, I would hope that Clay & Co. would try out as many ideas for enhancing the game as possible. Our role here should be to provide testing of these systems, bug reports, and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Geesh, your post sounds like they came to your house and shot your dog... :)

Personally, I don't think the changes go far enough, but I'm trying them out to see how they affect how much fun I'm having, and how the league plays... FOR MORE THAN A FEW DAYS...

Small market teams still have WAY less money than large market teams. But this rule does seem to help prevent teams from exploiting the financial system to build super teams and win a string of championships while going 100's of points into debt... So I think it's a vast improvement over the previous system. Some numbers may need to be tweaked (and already have been), but it seems like a good idea to me... Perhaps you could offer an explanation of HOW this change ruins everything for you, or WHY it's so stupid?

Gar Weber
08-31-2001, 07:19 PM
dood, that's exactally what i did

Slugger222
08-31-2001, 08:19 PM
OK, so let me see if I have this right.......

The Max Limit only really applies to the signing of Free Agents. You can still over spend your current budget, go massively in debt, and create a dynasty by trading for high priced tallent, correct ?

What can be done to stop one team from "Selling Out" to another team to create a dynasty?

kyles1483
09-01-2001, 01:37 PM
Clay I really like the new limits and the new free agent period. However, I was leading the bidding on a great player and the red bar was filled and when the next sim went through, he did not sign with my team. I think I was offering around 25 points for 9 years. The player was much better than the money I was offering but the red bar had filled and I thought I was making a steal. The player was GradyKwong in fastsim29.

First Baseman

Contact A+ Arm C+ 27 years old
Power A- Range B Third season
Speed D Fielding A Seeking 59 points
Eye A- Health A through 2011

Grady Kwong is a franchise player on almost any ballclub.

Why didnt I get this guy? Another problem I have been running into is the computer automatically setting my lineups without me pressing the auto lineup button. I sign on to my team everyday, is there anything I can do to keep this from happening?
Thanks,
Kyle

daedalus
09-01-2001, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Gar Weber
clay, i don't mean to bee to blunt/rude, but this was a stupid idea.

This *probably* could've been put a slightly different and less harsh way. There's nothing wrong with agreeing or disagreeing with someone. I mean, if you and I sit down and talk, we could probably find 45 out of 50 things to disagree on. On the other hand, to simply call someone's idea "stupid" is kind of harsh.

Y'know what I mean? :)


i WANTED a small market team as oneof my teams, you know?

I don't think this is a very big deal. You'll still have your challenge as a small market team. [I'm New York in one FastSim league and Milwaukee in another. I wanted roughly the same thing as you.] The difference is that you just don't get quite as screwed as you did previously. I mean, I had a sub-200 payroll and was STILL doing crappy. That's just no fun to play. At least NOW I can attempt to field a semi-competitive team for a few years before they all start wanting proper money and leave again [and the process begins anew!]. Give it a chance. I think you'll see over time that it'll work. [And, if not, we'll come back and ***** at Clay together. Again. Hee hee.]

Clay Dreslough
09-01-2001, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by kyles1483
Another problem I have been running into is the computer automatically setting my lineups without me pressing the auto lineup button. I sign on to my team everyday, is there anything I can do to keep this from happening?
Thanks,
Kyle

I added a new feature where the computer takes over management for your team if you go more than 90 simulated days without touching your team (and takes over the GM role after 365 days).

And, as soon as you log back in, you regain full control of your team automatically.

However, due to a bug, the second part doesn't work right yet. This is a pretty serious bug so I'm trying to fix it ASAP, but I doubt it will get done before Monday night or Tuesday.

Clay

daedalus
09-01-2001, 05:28 PM
Oooh. Neat stuff. :)