Unsigned draftees - does anyone else see this?

[Alloutwar]

Ok - quick question that maybe someone else has seen, or even better, someone else has an answer to. This is in BM'07, 9.45.

I play all-fictional; furthermore, I play with the 'peak' ratings turned off. I also put draft unpredictability way up; I like those draftees that go late to surprise everyone, work hard, and maybe turn into an average player.

Every year the game generates 200+ rookies. After the first round or two, there isn't much identifiable talent left (blank-and-blank is a horrible reliever with horrible stuff, don't know how he got this far, send him packing, etc). So all 30 teams go through all 6 rounds of the shrunken sim-draft. Then, about 20+ players are left over - usually the worst of the bunch.

Now, over a few years, some of those players stay in the free agent pool; occassionally, it appears as though their ratings improve as they age. Some of them, especially those who hit the draft at ages 17-19, start to look like they might develop. Since we have a shortened mock-draft, not all these players could be drafted. And if you attempt to sign one of them outside of the draft; aside from the default $50,000 that your offer starts at, you are stuck offering them major league money. (Don't push the wrong button, because you can't get a figure under $300k back...nice)

Even worse, if you attempt to sign one of them to a multi-year deal, their agent will laugh at you, asking for good money; even if the kid is 19, rated 49 or something! Why would I sign him at $300k?!?

I don't think rookies have the same chance to develop if they are not in a team's farm system - which is unfortunate, given the circumstances; they could go play in another country or independent league, and indeed eventually get signed. So my question is:

1) Does the game let prospects develop in the free agent pool at all?
2) Can we, in the future, improve contract options so that you can actually offer a minor-league contract, since these situations arise? And therefore, improve agent AI so that they realize their player is currently very poor, and does not deserve Boras money!
3) Also, being able to offer lower-than-Major-League-minimum salaries would be nice.

[ohms_law]

1) Does the game let prospects develop in the free agent pool at all?
Yes (even in Mogul 2007)


2) Can we, in the future, improve contract options so that you can actually offer a minor-league contract, since these situations arise? And therefore, improve agent AI so that they realize their player is currently very poor, and does not deserve Boras money!
well, the minor league contract options were actually correct in Mogul 2007. The problem is that, really, it's just not clear what's going on. That and once you offer a major league contract there's no way to go back.
According to the last two (at least) CBA's, minor league contracts can only be for one year. So, in that respect, Mogul has it correct. Like you said though, there's no way to really offer a minor league contract except if it's there for you when you open negotiations. (And unfortunately in 2008, that option went away completely for some reason...)

3) Also, being able to offer lower-than-Major-League-minimum salaries would be nice.
Well... in real life, the only options are to offer a major league minimum contract or a minor league contract. What else should there be in the game?

[HoustonGM]

In real life, what's the process for signing undrafted free agents? I know that they aren't on a minor league contract, and that they go through the usual Rule 5 rules, arbitration, etc.

[Alloutwar]

for 1+2 - Ahhh, okay. Good to know. Thanks as always, ohms.

For #3, I just wanted that $300k minimum to go away, letting me offer a 'minor league' contract. I mean, it defaults to $50k now when you first load the contract negotiatons screen, but you can't change it to $100k or $150k. If you go up, it goes to $300k and doesn't come back down.

I guess I am looking for a way for these guys to get into the majors - like the players that come in via independent league, as rare as they are. Or an Alfonso Soriano. I want to be able to sign them to a realistic deal - not just $50k for one year or $1mil+ for anything more. Maybe that won't be possible until specific incentives can be added to contracts, somewhere waaay down the line.

Not a big deal either way, just a nit-picky thing I thought I would mention.

[HoustonGM]

Minor league free agency isn't properly implemented in Mogul.

In real life -

Players that are signed to minor league contracts but haven't reached the necessary minor league (or major league) service time to be free agents stay with their current team until they do. Players signed to minor league contracts with between 3 and 6 years of major league service time are eligible for arbitration after the next year (unless they qualify for minor league free agency). Undrafted free agents aren't signed to a one year deal. They still go through the regular contractual process that drafted players go through, as far as I know, etc. etc. etc.

I think it's something that should definitely be changed.

[Alloutwar]

WOOHOO! Thanks for the research HGM! I knew something didn't quite gel with reality...

[HoustonGM]

Eh, didn't do any research, so I don't know the exact details of the systems, but I'm going by what I do know just from following transactions. For example, Carlos Pena. The Devil Rays signed him to a minor league contract which, technically, is just for one year. However, he doesn't have enough service time to qualify for free agency, but has enough for arbitration, so he'll go into arbitration now, not back to free agency as he would in Mogul.

[ohms_law]

B. Minimum Salary
(1) The minimum rate of payment to a Player for each day of
service on a Major League Club shall be as follows:
2007—at the rate per season of $380,000;
2008—at the rate per season of $390,000;
2009—at the rate per season of $400,000;
2010—at the rate per season of $400,000;
2011—at the 2010 rate per season plus a cost of living adjustment,
rounded to the nearest $500, provided that the cost of living
adjustment shall not reduce the minimum salary below
$400,000.

(2) For all Players (a) signing a second Major League contract
(not covering the same season as any such Player’s initial Major
League contract) or a subsequent Major League contract, or (b) having
at least one day of Major League service, the minimum salary
shall be as follows:
(i) for Major League service—at a rate not less than the Major
League minimum salary;
(ii) for Minor League service—at a rate not less than the following:
2007—at the rate per season of $60,000;
2008—at the rate per season of $62,500;
2009—at the rate per season of $65,000;
2010—at the rate per season of $65,000;
2011—at the 2010 rate per season plus a cost of living
adjustment, rounded to the nearest $100, provided that the cost
of living adjustment shall not reduce the minimum salary
below $65,000.
(3) For all Players signing a first Major League contract who are
not covered by paragraph (2) above, the minimum salary for Minor
League service shall be as follows:
2007—at the rate per season of $30,000;
2008—at the rate per season of $31,250;
2009—at the rate per season of $32,500;
2010—at the rate per season of $32,500;
2011—at the 2010 rate per season plus a cost of living adjustment,
rounded to the nearest $100, provided that the cost of living
adjustment shall not reduce the minimum salary below
$32,500.
(4) (a) Cost of living adjustments for the Major League minimum
salary described above in paragraph (1) shall be computed as follows:
To determine the 2011 salary rate, $400,000 shall be multiplied
by a fraction, the numerator of which is the Consumer Price
Index for Urban Wage Earners and Clerical Workers published by
etc...

Note that if the player stays in the minors, the keep receiving the minor league salary minimums. The only way for that to occur though is for the team to earn the players rights through the draft. Teams can sign players to the minor leagues, but in order to be able to bring them to the majors (which is assumed in Mogul, since unfilled roster spots in the minors are filled by ghost players), players must be signed to a
"Uniform Player’s Contract", which is what this (and Mogul) is talking about.

This:

Players that are signed to minor league contracts but haven't reached the necessary minor league (or major league) service time to be free agents stay with their current team until they do. Players signed to minor league contracts with between 3 and 6 years of major league service time are eligible for arbitration after the next year (unless they qualify for minor league free agency).
Is for the players that Mogul doesn't represent, unless you really push the game to do so. If you allow your rosters (through massive lack of resigning and/or intentionally releasing players) to fall below enough players to fill a minimum major league roster, then these players will simply start appearing on your roster (Clay actually calls them "scrubs" in the code comments... ;)).
As for salary arbitration:

F. Salary Arbitration
The following salary arbitration procedure shall be applicable:
(1) Eligibility. The issue of a Player’s salary may be submitted
to final and binding arbitration by any Player or his Club, provided
the other party to the arbitration consents thereto. Any Club, or any
Player with a total of three or more years of Major League service,
however accumulated, but with less than six years of Major League
service, may submit the issue of the Player’s salary to final and
binding arbitration without the consent of the other party, subject to
the provisions of paragraph (4) below.
In addition, a Player with at least two but less than three years of
Major League service shall be eligible for salary arbitration if: (a)
he has accumulated at least 86 days of service during the immediately
preceding season; and (b) he ranks in the top seventeen percent
(17%) (rounded to the nearest whole number) in total service in the
class of Players who have at least two but less than three years of
Major League service, however accumulated, but with at least 86 days of service accumulated during the immediately preceding season.
If two or more Players are tied in ranking, ties shall be broken
consecutively based on the number of days of service accumulated
in each of the immediately preceding seasons. If the Players remain
tied, the final tiebreaker will be by lot.

What Mogul doesn't actually represent is the fact that players must actually be signed to a contract after being drafted. This, again, is assumed in Mogul. In real life, drafting a player simply means that you have sole negotiation rights to that player. If you don't sign him, he re-enters the draft pool the following year.

[HoustonGM]

These aren't "scrubs' I'm talking about. The afformentioned Carlos Pena is one example. Players that are released in Mogul prior to being eligible to free agency, are forever perennial free agents, unless signed to a multiyear contract. If Carlos Pena had signed in Mogul, he'd be released (or resigned) after the season. In real life, he goes to arbitration unless the team decides to non-tender him. Mogul forces him to be released or resigned - no arbitration option.

There's also no minor league free agency in Mogul. I can draft a player and keep him in my minor league system until hes 40 (or chooses to retire). In real life, I think, it's after 6 years of minor league time with no major league time that he can declare free agency. And then, if he signs, he'll still be eligible for arbitration as per the arbitration rules.

In Mogul, signed players are never eligible for arbitration, which shouldn't be the case. Any player signed that hasn't reached 6 years of service time should go to arbitration (or be tendered a contract if not yet eligible for arbitration). If you sign a player that was "non-tendered" in Mogul (ie. instead of offered a value in arbitration, released), he becomes eligible for free agency after the season, which should only be the case if he had 5 years of service time and played the full season. See what I'm saying?

[MeetDaMets]

@alloutwar - i see this happening in the historical drafts (bbm08) as well. Since quite a few are dudes ive heard of and know were decent, ive always felt bad for em but left em there in case ai wanted them. i know ive seen youngsters do tours in foreign lands prior to MLB within mogul. might be a cool experiment someday.

@ohms/hgm, alot o' very informative reading . will reread . thx

[ohms_law]

The afformentioned Carlos Pena is one example. Players that are released in Mogul prior to being eligible to free agency, are forever perennial free agents, unless signed to a multiyear contract. If Carlos Pena had signed in Mogul, he'd be released (or resigned) after the season. In real life, he goes to arbitration unless the team decides to non-tender him. Mogul forces him to be released or resigned - no arbitration option.
That's a bit of a different subject from what allout brought up. It's covered by this though:

or any Player with a total of three or more years of Major League service,
however accumulated, but with less than six years of Major League
service, may submit the issue of the Player’s salary to final and
binding arbitration without the consent of the other party
I know that I've seen that referenced in the code, but I also know what you're saying is the problem... I'll have a look at it.


See what I'm saying?
It's OT, but yea, I know.

[HoustonGM]

It's all connected, I think. The game treats all free agent signings as free agent contracts that expire, even the minor league guys, undrafted free agents or otherwise. If you sign a guy with no major league experience, you'll have to resign him or let him go to free agency after the next season, when in real life, he'd stay with your team.