Next fix computer trades

[triple crown]

So far i like the changes that Clay has implemented. New free agent signing system, payroll limits, etc. But the next thing on the list should be to fix computer trading.

I just traded Tatis and Vidro (both earning around 30 points for years to come just languishing on my bench) for Sweeny, an immediate contributer. Not only that but i threw in some minor league scrubs to clear up some more salary (ie Mcgriff, Stocker and Fleix Martinez).

There is no way a human owner would have made this trade. Now my team is poised for a playoff run, and I made salary cap space to sign free agents for next season. (Thank God for computer owners to dump free agent signing mistakes).

anyways just my thoughts. I still love this game, but i think this should be the next "bug" fixed by Clay and the crew.
:)

[casey9]

I have a suggestion to eliminate the "sack and pillage" trading that goes on between computer-managed teams and low-down humans, such as myself (nine-to-one trade for a top-flight pitcher and a 30+ point payroll reduction).

First a little background: the online version of this game is a gathering of people from all over to compete against one another. The home version is usually played alone or with a couple of friends against computer-managed teams. The online version usually has only a couple of computer-managed teams, and they are usually marking time until a low-down human comes along to take control. Finally, computer-managed teams will not be paying for the service, like us low-down humans.

You probably have put many hours into the trading AI, but no matter how good, trial-and-error humans will find the weakness and then exploit it. Therefore my suggestion is to eliminate trading with computer-managed teams in the online version. Period. Your AI effort can be focused on making computer-managed teams the best budget managers, farm system developers, and free agent bidders. That way the team will remain attractive to potential human (a.k.a. paying) players.

To test the attractiveness of this idea, please create some beta-leagues with and without computer-managed trading, and see which ones flourish.

Good luck and great work so far!

[Garrett]

Great Idea Casey..nothing I hate more than joining a league only to find out NONE of the teams original "decent" players are on it and that they are so much overbudget and in the hole I cannot do anything for a few seasons.

[Bad_Ash]

That isn't the only problem tho. I do like the idea of computer owned teams to have a no trade policy. One of the worst problems is a player getting access to 2 teams in 1 league. They can trade any number of players and cash(points) to another team for nothing in return. It doesn't even have to be the same person controlling both of these teams, it can be friends, it could be ebay(other online games have alot of problems with ebay), etc... I suggest having a commissioner for each league that has to give his stamp of approval on trades for the integrity of the league.

Maybe all these problems will be fixed when people are paying to play. But so far every league I've been in has been ruined by me inheritting a team in debt or another player stacking his team.

Badash

[Particleman]

I agree with Bad_Ash, the same person owning 2 or more teams in the same league under different email accounts is a much bigger problem than computer trading. Computer trading can easily be fixed by just forcing computer players to not accept trades that will put them over budget. So I don't think computer trading needs to be removed, just tweaked. Human to Human trading can be difficult sometimes because many teams are abandoned.

[jad9423]

I think it would be difficult for the commissioner to approve all trades...that would be full time job to evaluate everything, and it would have to involve a third party. I think one solution could be that trades between humans that the AI evaluates to be "fair" could proceed automatically, and trades that raise one of more warning flags would have to be approved by a number of owners in the league.

Warning flags would be something like number of points worth of players going from one team to another, number of players trading hands, etc.

[casey9]

I too have seen several leagues ruined by "dump-and-run" or "swap-and-drop" tactics where someone uses more than one account (I've quit most of these leagues immediately upon discovery). The problem will be diminished when each account requires a credit card number, but it will still be there, especially amongst conspirator types who'll load an associate’s team in one league for the same response in another. The only solution to this will be league-member veto power over trades.

I suggest each team be given 24 hours to reject a trade. If more than half of the league rejects the trade (16 teams), then it is vetoed. All trades would be delayed less than two weeks in 10-day leagues, and about 2 months in 60-day leagues. This may seem harsh, but it would give all league members a chance to review all trades since many players login just once a day.

This change would probably require a new screen under “Trades”, such as "Pending Trades" that would list all pending trades with reject/approve radio buttons next to each, and a new data table to keep track of each leagues trade approval process.

Whatever the solution, I agree something must be done about trade conspiracies. It destroyed my Yahoo! fantasy league until they put a trade veto process in place.

[Bad_Ash]

I like the idea of having a Computer Commissioner that can veto trades that are lopsided.

Or how about the earlier idea of having the owner fire the gm. If the gm is projected to have the team running in the red for more than 3 years they are fired and cannot rejoin that league for a month. I think this would follow a real life financial model. The reason certain gm's are abusing the trading/free agent systems is that there is no fear of retribution or punishment. With this idea the owner could also veto trades for fear of his team running into a terrible debt.

Badash

[Particleman]

Well I think the computer trading has been fixed somewhat... you can no longer salary dump to computer players, in trades that involve nothing in return.

[casey9]

I agree that each league needs some form of oversight, either by an individual, committee, or a majority of owners. I just had to quit another league because some @#$! was swapping players back & forth between his two teams in FastSim45.

AAARRRGGGHHH:eek:

[casey9]

If you think the trading between a computer-managed team and a player has been fixed, go look at the new league, Fastsim51, and the trade between the Texas team (player) and SF (computer). Texas got Livan Hernandez and his cost-effective contract, for 9 (Yes NINE) whole-lotta-nothin' except a significant salary dump!

Please eliminate trading between players and the computer! Or at least cut negotiations down to 2 tries per simulation to keep players from using trial-and-error to find the computer's weakness.

[Particleman]

Yep, computer trading is still as messed as it's ever been, especially when there are plenty of high priced Free Agents floating around which ppl use to sign and trade. I think that if you sign a player from free agency, you should not be allowed to trade him for at least 1/2 a season.

[casey9]

If you want an example of about every trade exploitation there is in the current game, go look at the franky9977 'owned' SF team in Fastsim51. They took over other teams just to dump the good players to SF then they dropped those teams. Then they dumped excess contracts onto the computer-managed teams.

Ironically, this cheater took over the same team that was exploited for Livan Hernandez by the Texas team.

[Particleman]

Speaking of Fast Sim 51 julius840 who controls detroit, also controls Anaheim in the same league under a different account. He traded Glaus, Erstad, Ortiz, and Washburn to Detroit for a bunch of aging players and nobodies, and I'm pretty sure he dumped all Anaheim's cash into Detroit too.

Correction, the cheating I was mentioning is occuring in Fastsim 49.

Anyways, I don't think quitting the leagues where cheating is occurring is a viable option as that would pretty much mean quitting every league.

[Slugger222]

You have to think that when it becomes "Pay for Play", that it will become more difficult to bounce between teams.

[euphoria13]

The code of gaming ethics states that while trading with a computer team is not inherently wrong, signing guys with the sole purpose of trading them to the computer is.