wacky stats: post your own

[mnstonecold]

heres some weird ststs from a game I've been playing.. the phillies from 2007-2008 using the 2.71 rosters

Lohse won the Cy Young in 2007

Bourn 82 Steals! what not catchers playing or what?

[MeetDaMets]

Lohse is a bit of a surprise, but not that uncommon.

Bourn's steal seems perfectly normal for a guy showing 97 speed.
the # attempts / per time on base seems just a wee bit higher than the season before.
he could prolly steal 120 if you push the steal strategy.

[cartman00000001]

how about this: 2008 Pirates put Ronnie Paulino on the trading block, and the Mariners offer Ichiro and 3 other players for him.

[bcisaw11]

well bournes speed rating 97 so that could happen

[KMils]

Bourn's 2007 stats, extended to 158 games, have him at 72 steals. It's not at all extreme for him to snatch 80.

[gRYFYN1]

look at the minor league stats.


2006 he K 377 on just 121.2 (27.7 per 9!)
he topped the the year before w/ 31.4/9!

2008-2009 he went 1-43 in 50 start and K'd 616 in 212.2


http://www.geocities.com/gryfyn1/BB2K9-1.jpg

[shepster]

a better Question How did he loose a game if he struck out more Bats 27+ in 9 innings?
with endurance he aught to have a few complete games right? i see a few save /bullpen.

[gRYFYN1]

a better Question How did he loose a game if he struck out more Bats 27+ in 9 innings?
with endurance he aught to have a few complete games right? i see a few save /bullpen.

Well his .400 BAA or his 4.00 WHIP may have had something to do with his losses, and his 10+ ERA may have had contributed to his lack of CGs ...

[AndrewOsborn]

how about this: 2008 Pirates put Ronnie Paulino on the trading block, and the Mariners offer Ichiro and 3 other players for him.

the computer doesn't like ichiro much for the fact that he makes 20 mill. He was the last player chosen in my fantasy draft.

[HoustonGM]

the computer doesn't like ichiro much for the fact that he makes 20 mill. He was the last player chosen in my fantasy draft.
He shouldn't be making $20 mil. ;)

[cartman00000001]

Got one!

[AndrewOsborn]

Got one!

wheres the wacky?


And on Garret Mock: that is the most wacky minor league career i have ever seen. Easily.

[cartman00000001]

so, you don't find anything wrong with Craig Swan winning 22 games? I think that's in the same leagues as Lohse winning 22

[ohms_law]

Decent pitching by himself (3.78 ERA, .259 BAA, 124 K's, 83 BB), good defense behind him (3.78 ERA vs. 4.35 DICE), and I'm sure that he's received good run support. There's nothing that surprising about 22 wins.

[HoustonGM]

I remain flatly unsurprised by any win total for any pitcher. Horacio Ramirez went 8-7 last year with an ERA above 7. Noah Lowry had a winning record, Matt Cain had a losing record. Eric Gagne got a win last night after surrending a 3-0 lead.

The win is a useless stat

[Coach Owens]

I remain flatly unsurprised by any win total for any pitcher. Horacio Ramirez went 8-7 last year with an ERA above 7. Noah Lowry had a winning record, Matt Cain had a losing record. Eric Gagne got a win last night after surrending a 3-0 lead.

The win is a useless stat

As is ERA! :p (I do know that you know that.)

[HoustonGM]

As is ERA! :p (I do know that you know that.)
ERA isn't useless. You just have to put it in context, and have a decent sample size.

Wins were okay back when pitchers pitched complete games all the time. Now, they have no use whatsoever.

[Coach Owens]

ERA isn't useless. You just have to put it in context, and have a decent sample size.

Wins were okay back when pitchers pitched complete games all the time. Now, they have no use whatsoever.

True. But as Sabermetrics grow in baseball fandom and more and more stats are being created (FIP, xFIP, DICE, etc.), ERA is becoming obsolete. But yes, it is still effective to use at times.

[HoustonGM]

I don't think it's becoming obsolete. There's just more complete measures. It has flaws, but nowhere close to the extent that wins do.

Once you adjust for park and league, it's a pretty decent judge of how a pitcher pitched in a given season. Now, the problem with it, besides the way earned and unearned runs are doled out, is that, it's fine for telling you how a pitcher fared, but it doesn't offer much in the way of projecting how a pitcher will do, like his peripheral numbers can.

[Coach Owens]

I don't think it's becoming obsolete. There's just more complete measures. It has flaws, but nowhere close to the extent that wins do.

Again, true. But I'll say again that in my opinion, with more and more analysts using different stats than ERA, pretty soon everyone will use the new stats and ERA will be gone. There a lot of other stats (also admittedly flawed in their own ways) that take into account which ERA doesn't. (Fielding stuff that can help or hurt a pitcher and ballpark factors.)

[HoustonGM]

ERA will never be gone. It's too basic - how many runs did a pitcher give up.

I prefer using ERA+ over ERA - it's adjusted for park and league.

[Coach Owens]

ERA will never be gone. It's too basic - how many runs did a pitcher give up.

I prefer using ERA+ over ERA - it's adjusted for park and league.

I think it depends. Casual fans will more than likely always use wins and ERA to judge pitchers but there's always the chance that people like Bill James finally gets his point across. I like FIP.

[cartman00000001]

not wacky, but strange. Started in 1977 as the Jays. Full fantasy draft. Here is Dave Winfield. Starting in '77 he had 1 season with injuries, and 1 full injury free season. Been consistent thru '84 so far.

[gRYFYN1]

Yea for starters epically wins are more about endurance and not letting someone else contoll your destiny .

As far as Swann, his numbers were decent, but my guess is you also had a really good offense to help him.

[NoDowd]

This guy may have had the best season of any pro pitcher ever in 2021 (AA). Nothing about this guy makes sense. His lack of endurance didn't hurt his win total. Has anybody ever seen anything like this?

[ohms_law]

For minor league stats, you'll see that sort of thing all the time. The minor league stat generation system needs work.

His Major league stats are fine though, which is all that really matters.

[HoustonGM]

His Major league stats are fine though, which is all that really matters.
Are they?

Look at his ratings.

Plus, a .096 opposing batting average is just...really not sustainable over 170+ innings. Especially with those ratings.


Unless this was done by exploiting holes in pitch-by-pitch.

[NoDowd]

He did have 100 fastball and 100 power rating when he was puting those stats up in the minors. My scouting is ranked an A+ so I am still trying to figure out how he went from a dominant minor league starter who could not strike anybody out to a K machine reliever in the majors with his current ratings.

[ohms_law]

Well, it is only 85 and 88 innings... and, he's also thrown 4 wild pitches and hit 2 batters in that time as well. That and he's good at allowing Earned Runs (52 of 53 runs scored are earned), which tells me that he's not dominating at all.

Decent defense behind him, and being on a better than average offensive team, explains everything else fairly well. Check the spread between ERA and DICE. Given more work, he'll only do worse.


He did have 100 fastball and 100 power rating when he was puting those stats up in the minors. My scouting is ranked an A+ so I am still trying to figure out how he went from a dominant minor league starter who could not strike anybody out to a K machine reliever in the majors with his current ratings.

Again though, you should ignore the minor league stats. Their not really meaningful.

It sounds like you've rushed him slightly. He's 27 now with 2 years of experience, which means that he was called up at 25. Generally, I don't even think about calling up pitching prospects until they are 27, unless their really that good already. Young pitchers at the major league level burn out very quickly 99% of the time.

[HoustonGM]

Well, it is only 85 and 88 innings... and, he's also thrown 4 wild pitches and hit 2 batters in that time as well. That and he's good at allowing Earned Runs (52 of 53 runs scored are earned), which tells me that he's not dominating at all.
He gives up a bunch of home runs. Over half of the earned runs he allowed (32 of 52) were the batter himself hitting a ball over the wall.


Decent defense behind him, and being on a better than average offensive team, explains everything else fairly well. Check the spread between ERA and DICE. Given more work, he'll only do worse.
We'll see about the more work thing, but nevertheless, a decent defense cannot explain such incredibly low hit totals. Such would require a defense that turns like 90% of balls in play into outs, and that's not ever going to happen.

I do think something weird went on there, although I don't know at all what it could be. There is no way a pitcher with 70 power should be striking out 13 batters per 9 innings.


NoDowd: Can you go into Commish mode and edit him and post a screenshot of his predicted stats?

[ohms_law]

I do think something weird went on there

Like I said, he was rushed and it looks like he's burnt out now. I'm betting that his ratings were much better not too long ago.

[HoustonGM]

Like I said, he was rushed. now, he's burnt out. I'm betting that his ratings were much better not too long ago.
It seems like NoDowd is saying though that he's been producing these numbers WITH those ratings...

[ohms_law]

well, he did say:

He did have 100 fastball and 100 power rating when he was puting those stats up in the minors.

...I'd be interested in seeing the graph on the Vitals page.

[HoustonGM]

Yeah, and that was followed by:

to a K machine reliever in the majors with his current ratings.
Which leads me to believe his major league numbers were put up with those ratings...

Yeah, I'd like to see his vitals page and his predicted stats.




Also, completely unrelated, but if bringing up a pitcher at 25 is rushing him, that needs to be changed in Mogul. I understand the injury/burnout risk, but in real life, that's generally around the 21-22 year mark, not 25. Look at the good pitchers around now, most of them started in the majors in their early 20s. Zambrano, Oswalt, Sabathia, Bonderman, Verlander, Peavy...Keeping top pitchers in the minors until 25 is really...off, I'd say. Now, obviously, there's an equal amount of pitchers that get called up early and flame out, but if the flame out rate is as high as it seems you're saying, that should be adjusted.

[ohms_law]

For pitchers, the average is more around the 25-27 years old level. 21-22 year old position players are common.

Take a look at the class of pitchers that you're putting up as an example of successful young players. I don't think anyone would describe any of them "average". It is possible to bring up exceptional young pitchers and have them not burn out in Mogul as well, but the burn out factor is (correctly, in my opinion) high for pitchers in general.

[HoustonGM]

are you serious? you cant be....
Depends on what you're asking if he's serious about. It's untrue that ERA will ever be gone, nor should it be. It is true that there are better stats than ERA, and it is true that ERA fails to take into account many large factors that need to be taken into account.

[ohms_law]

What does need to change is how pitchers burn out. Typically, nothing really changes until you actually call the player up to the major league level. That should be fixed.

[Dan85]

Not insane, because Romero is a beast, but unbelievable.

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/8637/38902315xu9.jpg

[gRYFYN1]

The stats by nodowds pitcher are wacky, despite is mior league stats ( 26 start/year and averaging 8-8.5 IP / start w/ am ERA under 1 and a K/9 of 4.5

His major league stars are just as Odd, you can say its not enough of a asample size BUT 200IP over 2 years he should not be striking out 300 with those ratings.

[Astrosfan183]

Well, I started with the Daimondbacks in 1998 and I had Brandon Webb called up within a year or two as I had a VERY weak rotation. His first year or two he didn't do so great. Well, then he went 17-10 (On a sub 500 team) with an ERA under 4. After that he gradually got worse, though his rating went up until he finally reached his potential (About 93, +/- 1 scouting). I eventually traded him as his rating made him worth a lot.

Edit- I didn't realize how young he was, but hes been doing great since he went to the Yankees. Of course, in the game, the Yankees have the best pitching staff EVER. Heres a crazy stat. Since I 1999 (Started in 98), and I'm in 2007 now, they have had a pitcher win the AL Cy Young EVERY year except 07 (Andy Pettite- 4, Some Guy named Ryan Bradley- 2, and Ramiro Mendoza had one)

[asianinvasion]

I started to win many World Series championships in the early 1900's so I got real board. As you can see, St. Vrain had 7 no hitters and 5 perfect games. And in 1916, he had a beastly 0.04 ERA.

[ohms_law]

Holy ****!!!

:D

[Drake44444]

On the topic of pitching and wins, I think that it is not necessarily true. Its not useless.

You value an inning pitched in the 9th more than other innings right?

The same can be said for wins.

A pitcher can be having a horrible game and yet still fight through to keep his team in position for the win. He may pitch differently to get the win, adjust, be having a bad game and still get the job done.

When the game is on the line, the mentality for a pitcher changes, and how pitchers are judged changes.

But for a pitcher, the game is always on the line. It does not feel that way to a fan, but it is always on the line. Often pitchers can pitch well when it matters most.

If a pitcher gives up 5 runs in the first inning, and his team hits a grand slam in the bottom of the first, and he hangs in there and keeps it a 1 run game for 6 innings, he is doing his job and pitching well despite a horrible statistical start.

[ohms_law]

You value an inning pitched in the 9th more than other innings right?
Not necessarily. I value any well pitched inning, especially if the score is close. Leverage is what's actually important.


A pitcher can be having a horrible game and yet still fight through to keep his team in position for the win. He may pitch differently to get the win, adjust, be having a bad game and still get the job done.
Sure, but he doesn't do it alone. The only way that a pitcher earns a win by himself is if he strikes everyone out. If he allows even one ball in play, then his pitching alone is not what's earned the win.
Wins are a team stat, pure and simple. The fact that a pitcher pitches differently when the game is on the line has nothing to do with that.

[HoustonGM]

The win tells you nothing about how a pitcher actually pitched. It tells you nothing of his skill level. That is why it's foolish to evaluate pitchers based on wins and losses.

3-0 lead. Eric Gagne gives up a 3 run home run in the bottom of the 9th.

He gets a win.

That's enough proof to me that the win is useless in evaluating a pitcher. Also, Horacio Ramirez, 8-7, with a 7+ ERA last season. How about Matt Cain's ugly record compared to teammate Noah Lowry, when Cain was obviously a better pitcher?

[cartman00000001]

not terribly wacky, but I like this thread!! The first one is kinda strange where he got a lot of steals, but the speed isn't exactly blinding. I looked at his steal tendency and it's mid 90's so it explains it. The second one I would consider a sophomore slump

[95Mariners]

how about this guy...some nobody who hadn't pitched in the majors for a half decade. sure made the best of his shot when it came, though...

http://www.geocities.com/pulpyfetus/tracey.txt

[AndrewOsborn]

how about this guy...some nobody who hadn't pitched in the majors for a half decade. sure made the best of his shot when it came, though...

http://www.geocities.com/pulpyfetus/tracey.txt

That's a good one

[HoustonGM]

Your point?

[beerchaser]

I'd like to see an analysis on the average per-person beer consumption by fans attending the games of a really crappy team versus a really good one. Beer makes watching almost anything more tolerable, though I'd still have to draw the line at Dancing with the Stars or the Lifetime Network.

[walruskkkch]

348 balls put into play and only 1 managed to find a hole? Fascinating. In the immortal words of Crash Davis. "Do you know what the difference between hitting .250 and .300 is? That's 25 hits...25 hits in 500 at bats is 50 points...ok. There's 6 months in a season. That's about 25 weeks, that means if you get just one extra flair a week, just one. A gork, you get a ground ball, you get a ground ball with eyes! You get a dying quail, just one more dying quail a week and you're in Yankee Stadium."

[ohms_law]

I'd like to see an analysis on the average per-person beer consumption by fans attending the games of a really crappy team versus a really good one. Beer makes watching almost anything more tolerable, though I'd still have to draw the line at Dancing with the Stars or the Lifetime Network.
LOL
man, ain't that the truth!
:D


348 balls put into play and only 1 managed to find a hole? Fascinating. In the immortal words of Crash Davis. "Do you know what the difference between hitting .250 and .300 is? That's 25 hits...25 hits in 500 at bats is 50 points...ok. There's 6 months in a season. That's about 25 weeks, that means if you get just one extra flair a week, just one. A gork, you get a ground ball, you get a ground ball with eyes! You get a dying quail, just one more dying quail a week and you're in Yankee Stadium."
Immortal Words sure is right. I actually watched Bull Durham about a a week or two ago (I think it was on TNT?)... they definitely did get a few things right in that movie.

[95Mariners]

more Sean Tracey madness...partway through the season I tried plugging him into my rotation and injuring all my other pitchers for 500 days so he'd pitch every game in its entirety. This was the result:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7107/tracey2os5.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tracey2os5.jpg)
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8223/tracey3bo0.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tracey3bo0.jpg)

anyone have any idea what's going on??? I've certainly had players play above or below their expected level, but this guy clearly has somehow gotten bugged up badly. Interestingly, his (limited) AAA stats from the season are actually very bad. huh.

[AndrewOsborn]

If I could see it.

[HoustonGM]

There was some bug with Tracey's predicted stats in some roster....

Check his predicted stats and post a screenshot.

[HoustonGM]

If I could see it.

Click on it.

[95Mariners]

There was some bug with Tracey's predicted stats in some roster....

Check his predicted stats and post a screenshot.

bingo. he was predicted to get 222 groundouts with 170 batters faced.

in the offseason, by the way, Oakland signed him for over $85 million and then alternated him between AAA and the long relief slot during the season...I guess the AI uses performance to determine signings, but ratings to determine actual player usage. how odd.

[HoustonGM]

bingo. he was predicted to get 222 groundouts with 170 batters faced.
Yep. That's what I thought. I had a similar problem with Jamey Wright on my roster, but Clay and I caught it.


in the offseason, by the way, Oakland signed him for over $85 million and then alternated him between AAA and the long relief slot during the season...I guess the AI uses performance to determine signings, but ratings to determine actual player usage. how odd.
It uses stats for both..such craziness might confuse it though

[Passed Ball]

Crawford was NL MVP in 1902 and 1904 and lost the MVP in 1903 due to being injured. He wanted too much money initially and was unsigned by spring training 1905. He ended up waiting until the middle of 1907 before he was signed despite asking for the minimum for about a year and a half. His contract was allowed to expire and he didn't sign with anybody until midseason 1908 and the Tigers gave him an extension late in September. However, notice the large dropoff after he returned despite not being all that old of a player. My league average is typically about .270, so he went from a batting champion contender to about average between 24 and 27.

[AndrewOsborn]

This one is weird. I put Felder in a one game AAA rehab after a bad injury. He goes 3 for 3 with a strikeout.

[ohms_law]

Minor league stats are generated based purely on ratings, not simmed. There is no "rehab" effect.

[Red Sox Fan 734]

Heres some other weird minor league stats
14885

[Red Sox Fan 734]

Forgot to mention...during the year this guy threw 3 no hitters and a perfect game

[HoustonGM]

Let me guess, his predicted groundballs are higher than the amout of batters he's faced?

[Red Sox Fan 734]

yup lol

[Red Sox Fan 734]

Minor league stats are generated based purely on ratings, not simmed. There is no "rehab" effect.
Are spring training stats like this as well???

[HoustonGM]

Yes

[The Soul]

I found this funny. 1-18 with a 11.25 ERA. :p

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/7642/clemensis0.gif

I'm not sure what happened... In transactions it says he got a back injury right before he feel off, but it only kept him out for 3 weeks. Also it says he was an AL All Star in 2008 and 2009!!! How does that happen? :eek:

[HoustonGM]

I'm not sure what happened... In transactions it says he got a back injury right before he feel off, but it only kept him out for 3 weeks. Also it says he was an AL All Star in 2008 and 2009!!! How does that happen? :eek:
The AI gives Hall of Fame players nearing the end of their career a chance to make the All Star Game even if theyre not deserving that year, such as with Cal Ripken in real life his last season.

[AndrewOsborn]

I found this funny. 1-18 with a 11.25 ERA.

I hope that wasn't your team he was on.

[Astrosfan183]

Not wacky, but really good stats

http://i26.tinypic.com/2s6x8on.jpg

he has 4 MVP awards

His first year he won rookie of the year, then he won MVP for the next 3 years. He didn't win MVP again until 2010.