11.12 Attendance drops off, sometimes to 0

[6leopard6]

I just began my tenth season with the Diamondbacks, who are incidentally coming off their first two world series championships! (I also just had a triple crown winner!)(It would be cool if winning the triple crown would be noted as such in the history page, but that's a different topic)

Before I played the first game this year, I checked my team summary page. My payroll budget was an inexplicable -$27,100. That's negative.

I figured I'd just play a few games and that this was just a glitch. But I simulated my first game and the attendence was '0'.

I decided to cut ticket prices. I cut them in half and indeed did draw some fans. About 15,000 at $20 a ticket. For the last five years or so, I've drawn the max attendence of 48,500 at $30+ a ticket.

What's going on? Any ideas?

I simulated a weeks worth of games and there was little change although I was 6-0.

I could give a little more information here, but it might be meaningless, so I'll just see if anyone has heard of this before or dealt with it before.

Thanks! I look forward to any help. I can't continue with this dynasty if I'm (the best team the last 4 years) only drawing a projected $25 million for the year, when I have a payroll of $115+

[boomboom]

what is your cash at?

[ohms_law]

exactly, most likely you have > $100M in cash. The fans start punishing owners who are misers...
:)

[6leopard6]

hahahah, thanks. I considered that, but never thought it could actually be true. It's true that i have just under $500 million, but it's also true that I have nearly the highest payroll ($120+) and just paid the triple crown winner to a 3 year, $33 million dollar (per year) deal - $10 million a year more than any other player in history. I don't think it's realistic that they would punish the owner of the team with the best record the last two years and two WS wins and who just signed everyone back, but at least I know what the problem is. I guess they're getting a new stadium whether we need one or not!

(note: I'd been playing on coach until just recently = possibly why I have so much cash)

[FRENCHREDSOX]

Also AZ is known as a one of "mega" futures cities... this coupled with your success has enabled you to amass that amount of cash...

[boomboom]

that is why I hate playing against the computer...

[polevaultking]

I am playing on mogul level with the Mariners. I have had a strong team, making the playoffs or nearly making them every year for decades. No one will come to my games. I set it for normal broadcast, 15$ tickets, and concession prices that are 0+, yet I can barely hit 50% capacity.

I moved the team to Charlotte and built a super fancy new stadium, SAME PROBLEM! I have 12$ tickets, i blacked out TV broadcasts, and have 0+ concession prices, and still i cant hit even 50% capacity.

During my time in Charlotte i am making the playoffs year after year.

My only thought is that i am consistently trading star players when they are arbirtration eligible, because i cant afford to pay them anything. I have a payroll of 0$ and i am still lossing money because i have no attendance.

Any thoughts?

[petrel]

It could be the fact that you have tons of unspent cash. Your fans conclude "That greedy #$%#$%! Why won't he spend money on the team?"

From what I understand, large amounts of cash in reserve drives attendance down.

--Pet

[boomboom]

Yup that is it, what is your cash level?

Also what version number are you using?

[polevaultking]

Version 9.45

940,790,234

Thanks for the tips guys.

[gustafsl]

How the **** did you ever get that much cash???

Basically you need to get rid of that cash. I used to have around 100,000,000 and then found out that it may start to affect my attendance so I put 30,000,000 on the trading block a couple times and picked up a couple young prospects in return. Now I try to stay around 30,000,000 in reserves. Try to trade it to a team that needs the money though. And don't try to get too much in return. Just one or two prospects.

[Zeth]

Or just do what real owners do and stick it in your pocket (read: Move the cash around among the numerous businesses you own to make it magically disappear), so to the fans it looks like you actually have very little money. Real owners are masters at this.

(Translation: Turn on Commissioner mode and edit your cash down to 9 million instead of 900 million.)

Or you could be a philanthropist and give huge subsidies to the Pirates and Devil Rays of the world... although the same problem (too much money = lower attendance) could potentially cripple them even more.

[ohms_law]

Or just do what real owners do and stick it in your pocket (read: Move the cash around among the numerous businesses you own to make it magically disappear), so to the fans it looks like you actually have very little money. Real owners are masters at this.

no kidding! :D

anyway, this:

(Translation: Turn on Commissioner mode and edit your cash down to 9 million instead of 900 million.)
Is an excellent idea. Look, the thing is, these tools exist for a reason. It's your game, so you can do whatever you want with it (unless your playing in a league or something).

If you just want to know why there's a problem, that's cool... the forums are here for a reason. Any of several of us are more than willing to help out (I'm fairly sure that that's why polevaultking posted this thread).

If your posting a complaint because you were able to create a problem like this... why? If you know that there's a problem, and you know how to manipulate the system, please post a bug report so that Clay and Ian (and all of us) are aware of it. Additionally, post details about it in the bug report. Believe me, you'll get plenty of support that the problem exists and that it needs to be fixed/adjusted. If there is already a bug report, add to the report with your personal observations. It doesn't matter if you're restating things, really (although, after a while it can get somewhat ridiculous. Clay doesn't seem to mind though, so... *shrug*).

The reason that people get defensive about complaints though is that it often doesn't seem like the complainer is attempting to help anything. It's not that we're a bunch of "fan boys" who unreasonably defend the game against all complaints. Quite the opposite actually, we know that Clay and Ian will pay attention to the problems if there is enough information available to fix them.

[JayC]

My only thought is that i am consistently trading star players when they are arbirtration eligible, because i cant afford to pay them anything.
That brings to mind a good way to get rid of some of that accumulated cash... start spending it on star players! :)

Remember that just like teams in real life, you don't have to turn a profit every year. One approach to take with smaller market teams is keep your payroll as low as possible for a few years, bank a few million dollars, and then sign some expensive short-term contracts. You might lose money for a couple of years (dipping into what you socked away earlier), but you also might make a playoff run (playoff games aren't included in the projected budget; any money that comes in then will help your financial picture a lot) and build some fan support.

Maybe you'll win a championship, and then... Fire Sale! And start the process all over again.

[kmtierney00]

That brings to mind a good way to get rid of some of that accumulated cash... start spending it on star players! :)

Remember that just like teams in real life, you don't have to turn a profit every year. One approach to take with smaller market teams is keep your payroll as low as possible for a few years, bank a few million dollars, and then sign some expensive short-term contracts. You might lose money for a couple of years (dipping into what you socked away earlier), but you also might make a playoff run (playoff games aren't included in the projected budget; any money that comes in then will help your financial picture a lot) and build some fan support.

Maybe you'll win a championship, and then... Fire Sale! And start the process all over again.

One thing I noticed is you can really gouge the fans during the playoffs lol. Tickets might have to be set around 33.00 during the season, during the playoffs I was going up to 42 and there were still sellouts. (this was on coach and manager levels, not sure about mogul if they let you fleece the consumer that bad lol.) Beer and hot dogs were selling like crazy, you would think it was a Babe Ruth convention.

A little thing to keep in mind if you are a little bit in the red if you spent a lot on a prospect, you can make a sizeable chunk of that money back in that one month. At least that is what I found.

[Wassit3]

One thing I noticed is you can really gouge the fans during the playoffs lol. Tickets might have to be set around 33.00 during the season, during the playoffs I was going up to 42 and there were still sellouts. (this was on coach and manager levels, not sure about mogul if they let you fleece the consumer that bad lol.) Beer and hot dogs were selling like crazy, you would think it was a Babe Ruth convention.

A little thing to keep in mind if you are a little bit in the red if you spent a lot on a prospect, you can make a sizeable chunk of that money back in that one month. At least that is what I found.

I thought ticket prices automatically doubled in the post season anyway but I could be wrong...

[ohms_law]

They are. Be real careful about upping prices for the post season. Not only that, but you don't actually pay salaries or expenses during the playoffs, so everything you earn is gravy anyway.

[polevaultking]

I wasn't complaining, I had no clue that excess cash decreased attendence. Thanks for the help guys!!

[zkoeske]

I'm not sure if this is a bug, but I've been playing baseball mogul for a few years and haven't seen this before.

I started in Mogul with the St. Louis Browns in 1900. Beginning around 1904, I won 12 consecutive world series'. I was getting about 20,000 people a game and my stadium held 25,000. After about 6 years, since I had some money I decided to build a new stadium that held 70,000 to try to bring in even more revenue.

My ticket prices and concession prices were the league average, and I didn't have any money in the bank to keep fans from coming out to the ballpark- Nonetheless, my attendance dropped to 7,000/game even though I was still making it to the world series. I looked at my fan loyalty and it was 57. Across the league, the highest fan loyalty I saw was in the mid 60's. From what I recall about looking at this previously, the fan loyalties are typically a lot higher and a lot more people come out to the games.

I'm not sure if this is a bug, or something that has to do with playing in such an early time period, or if I am inadvertantly doing something to bring down attendance.

[zkoeske]

this is 10.21 by the way

[RickD]

I don't think it is a bug.....I think just like in real life fans sometimes get tired of no competition and as much as I dream of the Yankees winning every year I would get bored if there was no drama!

[ohms_law]

I'm on the fence about this for a couple of reasons.

First point is that Clay told me that he made a decision while implementing inflation. He intentionally hasn't made it so that the ticket prices in historic seasons will be "realistic", since the owners made money hand over fist and it would throw the game balance off.

Regardless, my first question with this is always (and yea, it's come up several times) how much cash on hand do you have. There is a system that punishes you for having too much cash on hand, so it's important to know.

[RickD]

I try to stay light on cash....buy my players and stay away from buildiung stadiums in historic times so I haven't noticed this really.

[RickD]

I stay light on cash and don't build new stadiums in historic seasons so I have not notcied this though I have heard on this forum of it happening.

[snabbit888]

I have noticed this in the past as well. It was in like the year 2020 (this was also Baseball Mogul 2K7, by the way, but I know things sometimes carry over) and the second I built the stadium, attendence and loyalty plummeted.

[jonnymo]

Regardless, my first question with this is always (and yea, it's come up several times) how much cash on hand do you have. There is a system that punishes you for having too much cash on hand, so it's important to know.

...I didn't have any money in the bank to keep fans from coming out to the ballpark...
Looks like that's not the issue. :confused:

[JayC]

I was getting about 20,000 people a game and my stadium held 25,000. After about 6 years, since I had some money I decided to build a new stadium that held 70,000 to try to bring in even more revenue.

My ticket prices and concession prices were the league average, and I didn't have any money in the bank to keep fans from coming out to the ballpark- Nonetheless, my attendance dropped to 7,000/game
Probably the first game 25,000 people showed up and were scared off by the spooky near-empty ghost town of a huge stadium! ;)

Just kidding... my real point is that I've also seen an attendance drop-off after building a new stadium (which, by the way, had a capacity only 3,000 higher than the one it replaced) for a very successful team. In real life, of course, there's always a buzz about a new stadium that almost guarantees significant increases in attendance for at least some period of time, regardless of what's happening on the field.

[ltt]

Probably the first game 25,000 people showed up and were scared off by the spooky near-empty ghost town of a huge stadium! ;)

Just kidding... my real point is that I've also seen an attendance drop-off after building a new stadium (which, by the way, had a capacity only 3,000 higher than the one it replaced) for a very successful team. In real life, of course, there's always a buzz about a new stadium that almost guarantees significant increases in attendance for at least some period of time, regardless of what's happening on the field.

I've seen this many times as well. I wonder if this could be another roll-over bug - i.e., building the stadium actually takes fan loyalty OVER 100, and that causes the game to reset your fan loyalty to the lowest baseline it's got.

I've never really paid close enough attention to give a detailed account, I'm usually too irate after watching like 6000 fans come to the home opener of the defending World Champs' brand-new state-of-the-art 80,000 seater...

:)

One nagging feeling I have is that it happens more frequently if you mess with stuff besides capacitry and quality - I vaguely remember (and this would have been in BB2k7) altering the stadium dimensions ALWAYS tanking attendance, but my sample-size would have been pretty limited...

[AussieBMPlayer]

I have the same problem with the 1987 Pirates While I am getting better they just don't rock up. I have 80Millions Dollars. Pathc 9.21.

here is a Pic of what I mean?:

[ohms_law]

Pittsburgh does have a very specific problem that is different from everywhere else. The population growth of the city, in the default city file, is negative. Every year of game time that goes by, there are fewer and fewer people in the city.

The game changes the city populations income slightly each season, but apparently it doesn't change the population growth rate. Or if it does, it doesn't change it enough to make any real difference. So, unless you change the city files Pittsburgh is doomed to loose money no matter what.

[AussieBMPlayer]

Pittsburgh does have a very specific problem that is different from everywhere else. The population growth of the city, in the default city file, is negative. Every year of game time that goes by, there are fewer and fewer people in the city.

The game changes the city populations income slightly each season, but apparently it doesn't change the population growth rate. Or if it does, it doesn't change it enough to make any real difference. So, unless you change the city files Pittsburgh is doomed to loose money no matter what.


Like what it says here:

[HoustonGM]

Turn on Commish Mode, go to the City Editor

[AussieBMPlayer]

Did that I posted the Pic Above your Post.

Those this does need to be fixed

[ohms_law]

Well, it depends. Pitt loosing just over 3600 people a year is accurate right now. Somehow, I don't think that that will continue on forever, though. Beyond 2007 (actually 2000, the last year that official data is available for) the game really should generate random population change differences for every city. Make the differences +-10% each year, and things should be fine for every city off into infinity.

Regardless, the "fix" with the current system is to check the population figures for each city every few years. For Pitt, after 10 years of game time, I tend to reverse their loss of population. Turn on commish mode and make their population change about 1000, and they'll be fine. That's not really cheating either, since no one really believes that Pittsburgh is going to turn into a ghost town in 10 years. Be realistic in the population change figures that you give to cities, and adjust every city that has a Major League team, and it's a pretty realistic simulation.

This reminds me though, I've really gotta release the rest of my City population mod...

[AussieBMPlayer]

Well, it depends. Pitt loosing just over 3600 people a year is accurate right now. Somehow, I don't think that that will continue on forever, though. Beyond 2007 (actually 2000, the last year that official data is available for) the game really should generate random population change differences for every city. Make the differences +-10% each year, and things should be fine for every city off into infinity.

Regardless, the "fix" with the current system is to check the population figures for each city every few years. For Pitt, after 10 years of game time, I tend to reverse their loss of population. Turn on commish mode and make their population change about 1000, and they'll be fine. That's not really cheating either, since no one really believes that Pittsburgh is going to turn into a ghost town in 10 years. Be realistic in the population change figures that you give to cities, and adjust every city that has a Major League team, and it's a pretty realistic simulation.

This reminds me though, I've really gotta release the rest of my City population mod...

I changed it and Attendace is still going down. This year average is 11,000 and I am in 1st Place

[AussieBMPlayer]

Here is the saved game for you to check it out:

[Statesman]

Hi. I just joined this board. I am having a few problems with Baseball Mogul 2008. The game is suddenly not registering any attendence or revenue for my home games. This just started a few days ago. I need revenue. I hope
someone can help me solve this problem. Thanks!

[ohms_law]

My best suggestion is to go into League Editor (enabling commissioner mode in the process) and selecting a different city and then re-selecting the correct city for your team.

I don't think that this occurs any longer in 2k9... there hasn't been any reports of it yet, anyway.

ps.: welcome to the community.
:)

[Statesman]

:confused:I started BBM2009 great game but I continue to have a carryover problem from BBM2008. I started a game with no problems. Then I started a new "custom"
game with the same team and now I have no attendance. I went into League
Editor and reloaded my city. I still have no attendance. What gives? Is there
a patch I need?

[ohms_law]

humm... when you started the new game, how exactly did you do it? Click the Game menu, and chose New Game? You didn't exit out of Mogul at all?

[grasshopper]

Ok, understood about cash reserves. When I started in 2008, it said it would cost me about 80,000,000 to build a new stadium. So I now have 250,000,000 in cash 10 years later and the same stadium now will cost me 247,000,000. I was saving cash to build the stadium. What is the use of build a new stadium function if all you get is punished for saving cash? Oh, and to build a retractable roof now costs 380,000,000. I know what will happen, I'll save up to 400M and then it will cost 700. Kind of stupid.

[RedsoxRockies]

I am posting this here, but move it if it needs to be. My budget has been totally messed up for the past few years. I started as the Expansion senators, but the money problems began to hit in the late '70s, causing my move to Dallas. That did not help, so I moved to San Antonio. Could some one look at the file and see whats wrong? (I have so much money because I gave it too my self so I could move. Also, try negotiating with players. they ask for extreme contracts or minimum contracts almost every time.)

[ohms_law]

I'm not sure what started the problem exactly, but I loaded the game and messed around with it. I lowered your cash back down to $20 mil and tried adjusting your ticket prices and everything. The strange thing is that after lowering your cash back to a fairly normal level, your team didn't earn any revenue or incur any expenses for the remainder of the season.

However, I simmed through the off-season and started the next season, and everything seems to be back to normal. You're getting good attendance, and all of the financial's seem to be working fine.

I never actually saw a problem with resigning players, by the way. All of the contracts seem to be basically in line.

[RedsoxRockies]

hmm... Did you look at the attendence in team history? It showed the crazy totals, and in the ticket price area, it shoud attendence as n/a, which I took to mean as zip.

thanks for looking though, its appreciated

[ohms_law]

I did, and I saw it. I also looked at several home game box scores. You're drawing 0 attendance in the current season, and I can't explain it, nor can I change it. I don't know what the problem is exactly.

If we could figure out what happened to cause this to start, then this could be turned into a real bug report.

Better yet, merged to existing bug report thread.