2005 Draft Class

[twinsGM]

I'm in April 2004, and Ryan Braun right now is on my team, when he was really draft in 2005:

[asianinvasion]

Its not a bug. All historical players enter the game when they turn 18. Braun turned 18 in 2002.

[twinsGM]

so they draft is unrealistic in historic years?

[twinsGM]

in terms of players in the draft?

[HoustonGM]

Basically. Players enter the draft in the year that they were 18. The Lahman database doesn't have actual draft data in it.

[metsguy234]

Maybe we should add draft data, since the Lahman doesn't cover it.

Isn't that the LOGICAL option??? Draft data is incorrect, well fix the damned draft data then :D

[Reade]

Draft data is incorrect, well fix the damned draft data then

Go for it, big talker

[skudplayr]

I don't see the big deal. You're playing as the Brewers and you started in a year after Braun was 18 so he's on your team. It's like that with everyone. For example, Ichiro played in Japan for awhile but if you start a game before he was 18 y/o he will be in the draft when he turns 18.

[metsguy234]

I don't see the big deal. You're playing as the Brewers and you started in a year after Braun was 18 so he's on your team. It's like that with everyone. For example, Ichiro played in Japan for awhile but if you start a game before he was 18 y/o he will be in the draft when he turns 18.

The big deal is that stuff like that is INCORRECT. Ichiro DID NOT play in the 1990s, and Ryan Braun did not play in 2004. I want to play a realistic game.

[HoustonGM]

The big deal is that stuff like that is INCORRECT. Ichiro DID NOT play in the 1990s, and Ryan Braun did not play in 2004. I want to play a realistic game.
Historical play in Mogul is not meant to be a strict historical replay. It's supposed to allow for "what if" scenarios, for example.

[Coach Owens]

The big deal is that stuff like that is INCORRECT. Ichiro DID NOT play in the 1990s, and Ryan Braun did not play in 2004. I want to play a realistic game.

You're complaining? Really? Even though this is easily solved with just a little work on your part?

[knicks0929]

The big deal is that stuff like that is INCORRECT. Ichiro DID NOT play in the 1990s, and Ryan Braun did not play in 2004. I want to play a realistic game.

Realistic or a carbon copy of history? Would it bother you if Ichiro had 243 hits in his rookie year, instead of the 242 he actually had?

Ichiro and Ryan Braun were both technically eligible when they were 18, so in an alternate universe (which is what historical play essentially represents), they could have been drafted earlier.

[cardsfan308]

He was in the 2002 draft...


Braun was rated the 6th-best shortstop prospect in the country by Team One Baseball as a senior,[18] and rated among the top 100 overall prospects by Baseball America. He graduated in 2002, but went undrafted as he told teams that he intended to go to college.

[metsguy234]

Realistic or a carbon copy of history? Would it bother you if Ichiro had 243 hits in his rookie year, instead of the 242 he actually had?

Ichiro and Ryan Braun were both technically eligible when they were 18, so in an alternate universe (which is what historical play essentially represents), they could have been drafted earlier.

But I like playing in an alternate universe with realistic players. I don't want Ichiro playing in 1994. Some people do, but I sure as helll don't.

[metsguy234]

You're complaining? Really? Even though this is easily solved with just a little work on your part?

I know of no way to fix this.

[Coach Owens]

I know of no way to fix this.

Delete the players when they enter the draft at 18 or just rename them then create a new player as Ichiro Suzuki or Ryan Braun or whatever when you think they should come into the majors. Simple, really.

[CatKnight]

Or give them injuries so they WON'T play until you're ready for them.

[Coach Owens]

Or give them injuries so they WON'T play until you're ready for them.

But that's a lot more work!

[metsguy234]

But I'd love for the game to actually have REALISTIC drafts.

And why do people keep saying players enter the draft at 18? I ALWAYS see draftees who are 16,17,19,20,21, and occasionally even 22.

[HoustonGM]

But I'd love for the game to actually have REALISTIC drafts.
It does. It doesn't have copies of real life drafts, but the drafts in historical games are relatively realistic.


And why do people keep saying players enter the draft at 18? I ALWAYS see draftees who are 16,17,19,20,21, and occasionally even 22.
Those would be fictional draftees. Historical players enter the draft in the year that they turn 18.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

But I'd love for the game to actually have REALISTIC drafts.

And why do people keep saying players enter the draft at 18? I ALWAYS see draftees who are 16,17,19,20,21, and occasionally even 22.

I like how you completely neglected the point that someone made about Ryan Braun being in the 2002 draft :rolleyes:.

[metsguy234]

17187

I can get you about 10 more examples of this.

[Coach Owens]

But I'd love for the game to actually have REALISTIC drafts.

And why do people keep saying players enter the draft at 18? I ALWAYS see draftees who are 16,17,19,20,21, and occasionally even 22.

What about players like Ruth, Mantle, Williams, etc.? They weren't even drafted. The amateur draft didn't even start until 1965. Why not just take the whole draft system out?

[metsguy234]

How does NO ONE want the draftees to be in their correct year? The programmers should be able to fix this in like ONE MINUTE. Seriously, it's like a ridiculously easy fix.

[Coach Owens]

How does NO ONE want the draftees to be in their correct year? The programmers should be able to fix this in like ONE MINUTE. Seriously, it's like a ridiculously easy fix.

Not really...

[metsguy234]

Not really...

Yes they could. They just have to update the master database with the correct draft year. Not that hard.

[Coach Owens]

Yes they could. They just have to update the master database with the correct draft year. Not that hard.

Sports Mogul does not own the Lahman Database.

[ADman]

Well, first of all as mentioned, the Lahman Database is the "master database." Second, it would certainly take more than 1 minute to manually update the year that everyone in the history of baseball was drafted...

[HoustonGM]

17187

I can get you about 10 more examples of this.
Victor Zambrano turned 18 in August of 1993. You are drafting him in the year that he turns 18.


Sports Mogul does not own the Lahman Database.
Exactly. The Lahman Database does not have draft data, and that is what the game uses.

Also, as Coach mentioned, the amateur draft didn't even start in real life until the 1960's. What of all the players from prior to that, as well as all the players that weren't drafted, but signed as free agents? The simplest and most effective way to do it is how Mogul currently does it.

[HoustonGM]

Well, first of all as mentioned, the Lahman Database is the "master database." Second, it would certainly take more than 1 minute to manually update the year that everyone in the history of baseball was drafted...
Yep. That really should go without saying....lol

[Reade]

They just have to update the master database with the correct draft year. Not that hard.

As I said earlier, go for it then.

[ADman]

Yep. That really should go without saying....lol


I would think so too, but obviously it didn't.


How does NO ONE want the draftees to be in their correct year? The programmers should be able to fix this in like ONE MINUTE. Seriously, it's like a ridiculously easy fix.

[knicks0929]

^He also said "programmers." There's only one, right?

[metsguy234]

Well, Clay won't be getting 20 bucks from me next year if he can't find the time to do the ridiculously simple task of adding correct draft years.

[knicks0929]

Well, Clay won't be getting 20 bucks from me next year if he can't find the time to do the ridiculously simple task of adding correct draft years.

Did you just disregard the many posts pointing out exactly why he can't do this? Did you also disregard common sense in calling this a ridiculously simple task. Do you have any clue how long it would take to manually input correct draft years for the entire history of baseball?

[metsguy234]

Did you just disregard the many posts pointing out exactly why he can't do this? Did you also disregard common sense in calling this a ridiculously simple task. Do you have any clue how long it would take to manually input correct draft years for the entire history of baseball?

He CAN do this. He can take the Lahman and add the draft years. I feel cheated out of 20 bucks.

[Coach Owens]

He CAN do this. He can take the Lahman and add the draft years. I feel cheated out of 20 bucks.

But he doesn't OWN the Lahman Database! Therefore, he can't change it! It's owned by the guy who created it! Is it that hard to understand?

[metsguy234]

But he doesn't OWN the Lahman Database! Therefore, he can't change it! It's owned by the guy who created it! Is it that hard to understand?


???

He downloads the database, which Sean Lahman posted on his site, and then ADDS to it. How is that illegal?

[ADman]

but how can you think for a second that researching draft dates for every player that ever played would be an easy, "one minute" task? Don't you think there are more pressing issues?

[Coach Owens]

???

He downloads the database, which Sean Lahman posted on his site, and then ADDS to it. How is that illegal?

Well, let's see. It's like having an office building. You're allowed to add and subtract items from it all you want, but you're not allowed to demolish and rebuild it since you don't OWN the property.

[metsguy234]

Well, let's see. It's like having an office building. You're allowed to add and subtract items from it all you want, but you're not allowed to demolish and rebuild it since you don't OWN the property.

Exactly! He's allowed to add and subtract items from the database, but not completely change it.

Your hypothetical didn't make much sense...:confused:... If you have an office building, you own the property...

[Coach Owens]

Exactly! He's allowed to add and subtract items from the database, but not completely change it.

Your hypothetical didn't make much sense...:confused:... If you have an office building, you own the property...

Generally, the companies rent the property. They don't own it.

[Coach Owens]

Exactly! He's allowed to add and subtract items from the database, but not completely change it.

Your hypothetical didn't make much sense...:confused:... If you have an office building, you own the property...

And adding the correct draft years is completely changing it.

[metsguy234]

And adding the correct draft years is completely changing it.


Copyright Laws= Facism in Action

[Coach Owens]

Copyright Laws= Facism in Action

Right....





He's completely insane.

[metsguy234]

How do you change the draft years for players from the Master file?

[Coach Owens]

How do you change the draft years for players from the Master file?

How in the world would I know?

[metsguy234]

How in the world would I know?

I wasn't asking you specifically. Someone must know, though.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

Theres nothing Clay can do and this is such a ridiculously minute and unimportant detail that it really shouldn't matter.

Even if there was something Clay could do about this without getting in an a$$-ton of legal trouble, I'd rather see the AI fixed, the Y4 bug eliminated, more realistic FA system, more realistic injury system, and about a hundred other things before I'd even consider this.

[metsguy234]

What the Hells Bells is the Y4 bug?

[knicks0929]

What the Hells Bells is the Y4 bug?

Competitive balance issue.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

In a lot of games, by year four of the dynasty the competitive balance will go completely out of whack if there isn't some human intervention. You'll see a lot of teams winning 100-120 games and a lot of teams losing just as many games. CatKnight can explain it better than I, but the point is there are a lot of things I'd rather see than correct draft years.

[metsguy234]

I don't give a Hoover Dam about competitive balance! I want realistic freakin rosters! I paid 25 freakin dollars for this game and now I want a refund! Someone should sue for FALSE ADVERTISING! The game says it has realistic historical rosters, but it DOESNT!

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

I'm really surprised you haven't been suspended for one of these childish tantrums yet....

[knicks0929]

I don't give a Hoover Dam about competitive balance! I want realistic freakin rosters! I paid 25 freakin dollars for this game and now I want a refund! Someone should sue for FALSE ADVERTISING! The game says it has realistic historical rosters, but it DOESNT!

Yes it does.

[metsguy234]

I'm really surprised you haven't been suspended for one of these childish tantrums yet....

I was banned for three days last week.

[metsguy234]

Yes it does.

Wrong. Ichiro was NOT on the 1994 Mariners. So the rosters are not historically accurate.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

I think you're heading that direction again.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

Wrong. Ichiro was NOT on the 1994 Mariners. So the rosters are not historically accurate.

Again, nothing Clay or Sports Mogul can do. Its a matter of the Lahman's database, not anything or anyone directly associated with the game.

[metsguy234]

I think you're heading that direction again.

I don't think my requests are too ridiculous.

[metsguy234]

again, nothing clay or sports mogul can do. Its a matter of the lahman's database, not anything or anyone directly associated with the game.

then screw the lahman database! Make our own goddamned database! God, why is this so freakin hard to comprehend???????

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

Because I'm pretty sure thats illegal since the Lahman's database is already around. And even if we could, it would take months, maybe years, to make another database that accounts for everybody in the history of Major League Baseball.

[Arctic Blast]

So, on top of building the entire game engine, and trying to fix the big AI problems, he should also construct a database containing EVERY SINGLE PLAYER in the history of baseball since 1901. metsguy, do you have any concept how massive a project this is? Why do you think SM and OOTP and all the other PC baseball titles USE the Lahman database...they don't have the time and resources to undertake something that massive themselves!

I don't disagree that it would be nice if guys all showed up when they really did, but the amount of work it would take to GET that just simply isn't worth it overall.

[metsguy234]

Because I'm pretty sure thats illegal since the Lahman's database is already around. And even if we could, it would take months, maybe years, to make another database that accounts for everybody in the history of Major League Baseball.

So the Lahman Database has a freaking monopoly on the database business? THAT IS RETARDED!!!!

Don't we have enough people living in their mom's basement on these forums to make a new database?

[ADman]

I don't give a Hoover Dam about competitive balance! I want realistic freakin rosters! I paid 25 freakin dollars for this game and now I want a refund! Someone should sue for FALSE ADVERTISING! The game says it has realistic historical rosters, but it DOESNT!

http://www.sportsmogul.com/corp/guarantee.html

[Arctic Blast]

So the Lahman Database has a freaking monopoly on the database business? THAT IS RETARDED!!!!

Don't we have enough people living in their mom's basement on these forums to make a new database?

But you've just shifted the problem here, metsguy, because those guys, as the builders of your new database, would now have ownership of it. So, again, Clay would have to have the rights to use THAT database.

[metsguy234]

but you've just shifted the problem here, metsguy, because those guys, as the builders of your new database, would now have ownership of it. So, again, clay would have to have the rights to use that database.

copyrighting laws are sooooooooooo gay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

So the Lahman Database has a freaking monopoly on the database business? THAT IS RETARDED!!!!

Don't we have enough people living in their mom's basement on these forums to make a new database?

No, monopolies and trusts are illegal.

Nope, but we might have enough immature 12 year olds like you to do it.

[metsguy234]

No, monopolies and trusts are illegal.

Nope, but we might have enough immature 12 year olds like you to do it.

But then how the HELLL is it illegal to make another database (someone DID say that a few posts ago, dont deny it)

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

This thing called a copyright makes it illegal. And since "database" isn't an industry it can't be a trust or a monopoly.

[metsguy234]

This thing called a copyright makes it illegal. And since "database" isn't an industry it can't be a trust or a monopoly.

So it would be illegal for me to make my own baseball database?

You can't copyright a generic product (McDonalds cant copyright fries, Taco Bell cant copyright tacos)

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

How is it a generic product if it has a specific use?

And no, I don't think so as long as you don't try to make money off it. I'm no lawyer though.

Go ahead and try to make your own database. If you don't even have the dedication to maintain a dynasty on these forums I doubt you'll have the dedication to go back through every year of baseball to build a database.

[metsguy234]

Sean "The Devil Incarnate" Lahman cant say that he is the only one permitted to make a baseball database.

Neither Clay, nor Markus, nor any programmer could say that they are the only one permitted to make an PC baseball simulation game.

[Coach Owens]

Sean "The Devil Incarnate" Lahman cant say that he is the only one permitted to make a baseball database.

Neither Clay, nor Markus, nor any programmer could say that they are the only one permitted to make an PC baseball simulation game.

We never said it was illegal to make a database, just to change the the Lahman Database.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

But by making another database you're essentially copying his and simply adding draft year's to it.

And, whats your point?

Also, I refuse to argue about this any longer. Its like I'm talking to a wall in more ways than one.

[metsguy234]

LOL! The Devil Incarnate Lahman actually lets people send him emails from his site! What an idiot! Now I can tell him how much I hate him! :)

[jcbarr]

Well just remember that if it weren't for him you wouldn't have historical play at all in OOTP or Mogul.

[metsguy234]

Well just remember that if it weren't for him you wouldn't have historical play at all in OOTP or Mogul.

WRONG!

A good person would have created a database.

I wish Lahman would get on that plane with Dan Uggla, Billy Wagner, JD Drew, Michael Young, Justin Morneau, and then we could throw George Bush, the Steinbrenners, Derek Jeter, Gayrod, and all of the rest of the Yankees in there.

[jcbarr]

Why is this guy even still allowed to post here?

[metsguy234]

Why is this guy even still allowed to post here?

Wow, that's nice. Taking cheap shots at people you don't even know in real life is pointless anyway. Although I may seem mean, you don't know me, so don't make judgements.

[Coach Owens]

WRONG!

A good person would have created a database.

I wish Lahman would get on that plane with Dan Uggla, Billy Wagner, JD Drew, Michael Young, Justin Morneau, and then we could throw George Bush, the Steinbrenners, Derek Jeter, Gayrod, and all of the rest of the Yankees in there.

So basically because Lahman spent hours upon hours to create a database that could be used for historic play in computer baseball simulation games, but didn't put historical draft data in it, something that nobody but you really cares about, you want him to die?

[metsguy234]

I'm sure you guys would all care when I sue you guys for false advertising.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

Wow, that's nice. Taking cheap shots at people you don't even know in real life is pointless anyway. Although I may seem mean, you don't know me, so don't make judgements.

So you can take cheapshots at someone you don't know in real life (Sean Lahman, calling him a bad guy and the devil incarnate), but others can't?

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

I'm sure you guys would all care when I sue you guys for false advertising.

lol, ok, have fun with that.

[knicks0929]

Wrong. Ichiro was NOT on the 1994 Mariners. So the rosters are not historically accurate.

But if you make a trade, the rosters are no longer "historically accurate." So is allowing trades that didn't happen in real life a problem with the game?

[ADman]

I'm sure you guys would all care when I sue you guys for false advertising.

good luck finding a lawyer to take that case

[metsguy234]

But if you make a trade, the rosters are no longer "historically accurate." So is allowing trades that didn't happen in real life a problem with the game?

No!

I want the simulation to start with accurate rosters as of that day (If that day is April 1st, 1994, then accurate rosters would NOT contain Ichiro!)

I bet this bug wont even be fixed because this game doesnt care about its customers!!!

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

It isn't a bug.

[metsguy234]

good luck finding a lawyer to take that case

I don't need a lawyer, I'll represent myself. I'm smart enough.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

i don't need a lawyer, i'll represent myself. I'm smart enough.

rofl.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

If you're smart enough then why have we been explaining this s**t to you for the past hour, at least?

[metsguy234]

rofl.

Are you calling me stupid?

[metsguy234]

I'm going to tell everyone I know NOT to buy this game, because of the INCREDIBLY unsupportive members of this forum.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

Are you calling me stupid?

I have a hard time believe you're as smart as an experienced, lawyer. Y'know, one who went to college to study law and graduated with a degree in law?

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

I'm going to tell everyone I know NOT to buy this game, because of the INCREDIBLY unsupportive members of this forum.

If they're anything like you, by all means, keep them away.

[twinsGM]

Wow.... how did this turn into a 7-page thread?

[knicks0929]

No!

I want the simulation to start with accurate rosters as of that day (If that day is April 1st, 1994, then accurate rosters would NOT contain Ichiro!)

I bet this bug wont even be fixed because this game doesnt care about its customers!!!

It isn't a bug, and that would be a good bet, because they're not going to "fix" it.

The game is quite good about its customers. I'm fairly sure Clay will give you a refund if you only ask. So just stop complaining about your measly $25 please.

[metsguy234]

Wow.... how did this turn into a 7-page thread?

Everyone's yelling at me and not respecting my opinions for the past six pages.

[twinsGM]

I agree that the Draft Classes should be right, but it would take a lot more than a minute to make it like that.

[knicks0929]

Everyone's yelling at me and not respecting my opinions for the past six pages.

Some people have been a bit confrontational, but let's be completely honest about this for a moment. You started a thread complaining about an aspect of the game. You were told why this aspect existed, why it isn't really an issue, and that it wouldn't be changed. You refused to stop complaining about it though, and got very testy.

[metsguy234]

Some people have been a bit confrontational, but let's be completely honest about this for a moment. You started a thread complaining about an aspect of the game. You were told why this aspect existed, why it isn't really an issue, and that it wouldn't be changed. You refused to stop complaining about it though, and got very testy.

I didnt even start the thread.

[twinsGM]

Me? I never complained, and he wasn't the one who started the thread.. I think you're a little confused...

[knicks0929]

Well, I'm mistaken about him starting the thread. My mistake. Everything else I said is true.

[twinsGM]

Yeah, but it would be nice to have correct rosters...

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

Yeah, but it would be nice to have correct rosters...

Draft =/= Rosters.

[metsguy234]

Some people have been a bit confrontational, but let's be completely honest about this for a moment. You started a thread complaining about an aspect of the game. You were told why this aspect existed, why it isn't really an issue, and that it wouldn't be changed. You refused to stop complaining about it though, and got very testy.

You know, I think OOTP has accurate draft data. They might be my new sim game, so you guys are close to losing a customer.

[twinsGM]

what's OOTP?

[metsguy234]

Out of the Park Baseball, BBM's direct rival who sells more games and makes more money.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

what's OOTP?

BBM's rival, basically. Its another baseball sim. Thats about where the similarities end however. BBM is a more fun, pick-up-and-play game, while OOTP is bogged down with stats and numbers and kind of lacks the fun element BBM has.

[twinsGM]

whats it stand for?

[HoustonGM]

I was going to respond to the points in this thread, but frankly, it's just made my head hurt reading through it.

I'm closing this thread, and metsguy234, have a good vacation. I'm sorry, but you absolutely need to be a little more mature when you come back in 5 days. You're going completely overboard with this stuff.

[ohms_law]

...I agree.
:(

[robinhoodnik]

...I agree.
:(

Wow! Me too.:eek: