Daunte Culpepper retires

[justanewguy]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Amz9_Knyvdn2QilA0kE.1r85nYcB?slug=ap-culpepperretires&prov=ap&type=lgns

The AP writer put it quite concise and spot-on:


“Farewell NFL,” he wrote.

With that, a career once filled with such promise came to a most unceremonious end.

It's sad how he went from one of the NFL's best QBs and a great playmaker, with a cannon for an arm and the build of a linebacker (a big linebaker, at that)... to a guy struggling to get a job. I enjoyed watching him play, even though I am a Bear fan.

[RickD]

Well maybe with QB's getting hurt he'll be able to make a comeback.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

Wow. I find this pretty surprising.

In any case, anyone wanna make bets on what network he ends up as an analyst with :D?

[justanewguy]

Well maybe with QB's getting hurt he'll be able to make a comeback.

Not likely. He was getting passed up for jobs by undrafted FAs, and terrible QBs.


Wow. I find this pretty surprising.

In any case, anyone wanna make bets on what network he ends up as an analyst with :D?

He seems like a CBS kinda guy.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

I think he'll take a year off before going into show biz, but I'd peg him for ESPN.

[etothep]

i'll say it, who cares

he supposedly inundates NFL GMs with constant emails on his availabilitiy (after supposedly turning down a $1mil deal to be a backup)

[justanewguy]

i'll say it, who cares

he supposedly inundates NFL GMs with constant emails on his availabilitiy (after supposedly turning down a $1mil deal to be a backup)

I don't really "care" either, since he was a complete nonfactor for the past few years.

Mainly I'm just miffed that a guy who was a very special and unique player went downhill so fast. He was a type of QB that had never really been seen before in the NFL, much less having great success there.

Some LBs and even linemen would have to pull up while hitting him because he was so big and fast. Often, they'd bounce right off him.

He had tremendously special physical skills, so that's what I care about. But in terms of the name, numbers, or personality, it's just another retirement.

[etothep]

I don't really "care" either, since he was a complete nonfactor for the past few years.

Mainly I'm just miffed that a guy who was a very special and unique player went downhill so fast. He was a type of QB that had never really been seen before in the NFL, much less having great success there.

Some LBs and even linemen would have to pull up while hitting him because he was so big and fast. Often, they'd bounce right off him.

He had tremendously special physical skills, so that's what I care about. But in terms of the name, numbers, or personality, it's just another retirement.

coincidence that he "went downhill" when there wasn't a randy moss to lob the ball to every 3rd play?

not arguing, just wondering whether he would have ever been near as good as he was without an elite wr talent playing with him so long

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

coincidence that he "went downhill" when there wasn't a randy moss to lob the ball to every 3rd play?

not arguing, just wondering whether he would have ever been near as good as he was without an elite wr talent playing with him so long

Its a good thought, and one tons of sports fans and analysts are bound to have right now. My take on it is this: Obviously having a guy like Moss makes a big difference, but so does blowing out basically every major ligament in your knee, and I don't think there's anyway ONE receiver can make or break a QB like what "happened" in this case.

[justanewguy]

coincidence that he "went downhill" when there wasn't a randy moss to lob the ball to every 3rd play?

not arguing, just wondering whether he would have ever been near as good as he was without an elite wr talent playing with him so long

I think you're right. He wouldn't have been nearly as good, numbers-wise, without that Minnesota offense, especially Moss. In fact, at one point, they were plugging any old QB into that system (literally, any OLD quarterback), and it was working.

But Moss had no effect on Culpepper's undeniable physical abilities. And just as a Randy Moss can make you look like a better QB than you are, the combination of blowing out a knee and going to a nightmare of a team like Miami can make you look much worse than you are.


Its a good thought, and one tons of sports fans and analysts are bound to have right now. My take on it is this: Obviously having a guy like Moss makes a big difference, but so does blowing out basically every major ligament in your knee, and I don't think there's anyway ONE receiver can make or break a QB like what "happened" in this case.

Exactly. Again, Daunte doesn't have the huge numbers in Minnesota without Moss, but he also doesn't just fall off the face of the planet without a knee injury and the Dolphins and Raiders.

[etothep]

Its a good thought, and one tons of sports fans and analysts are bound to have right now. My take on it is this: Obviously having a guy like Moss makes a big difference, but so does blowing out basically every major ligament in your knee, and I don't think there's anyway ONE receiver can make or break a QB like what "happened" in this case.

Culpepper became fulltime starter w/ the Vikes in 2000. From 2000-2003, Moss accounted for 40.7% of his passing yards & 54.4% of his TD passes. Even when you factor in Moss' abyssmal 2004 season (where he literally gave up on the team, he accounted for 34.5% of Culpepper's passing yds & 48.5% of his TD passes (this obviously takes 2000-2004 season stats)

read into the stats what you want

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

Culpepper became fulltime starter w/ the Vikes in 2000. From 2000-2003, Moss accounted for 40.7% of his passing yards & 54.4% of his TD passes. Even when you factor in Moss' abyssmal 2004 season (where he literally gave up on the team, he accounted for 34.5% of Culpepper's passing yds & 48.5% of his TD passes (this obviously takes 2000-2004 season stats)

read into the stats what you want

Well, lets try taking Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne away from Peyton Manning and see what happens there. Maybe we can throw in three torn ligaments with him too.

[etothep]

Well, lets try taking Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne away from Peyton Manning and see what happens there. Maybe we can throw in three torn ligaments with him too.

2 receivers for 1 doesn't seem too fair :p

look, i don't like moss at all (he picks & chooses when to give 100%, or even 60%, when playing), but there's no denying he's as dominant a receiver ever when he brings the effort (case in point: look what happened with brady last season...side note, i can't stand the pats...he not only makes the big plays, but frees things up for other wideouts, aka wes welker)

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

2 receivers for 1 doesn't seem too fair :p

Ok. Then we can just take away Marvin Harrison when he was at his peak 4 or so years ago.

The point is, you take away a big-time receiver from any QB and his numbers are bound to drop, but that losing a big-time receiver isn't going to complete ruin or make or break a guy's career, like you're insinuating it did here. I'd assume the knee injury did more damage, literally and figuratively, than losing Moss did. And similarly, when you give a big-time wide receiver to any QB, his numbers are bound to improve (see Tom Brady last season and prior to).

[etothep]

Ok. Then we can just take away Marvin Harrison when he was at his peak 4 or so years ago.

The point is, you take away a big-time receiver from any QB and his numbers are bound to drop, but that losing a big-time receiver isn't going to complete ruin or make or break a guy's career, like you're insinuating it did here. I'd assume the knee injury did more damage, literally and figuratively, than losing Moss did. And similarly, when you give a big-time wide receiver to any QB, his numbers are bound to improve (see Tom Brady last season and prior to).

Fair enough...

Moss left the Vikes in 2004. Culpepper was injured nearly halfway through the 2005 season. He was on pace for his second lowest passing yd total in his career & had 12 picks to 6 tds (less than 1 td per game).

again, stats are open to opinion in this case (maybe he was just off to slow, really slow, start that season)

[justanewguy]

Yeah, I was about to pose the question that, if Moss were taken away from Brady, does that mean he's not that good because his numbers become more "normal?"

The NFL is a funny thing, because ANY player's success is based largely on the players surrounding him. To the point where it's nearly impossible to be successful without the supporting cast. Very, very, very few great players are GOOD enough to be great players mostly on their own. Barry Sanders comes to mind.

It can just as easily be asked, how good would Joe Montana have been without Rice, Taylor, Craig, and an incredible offensive line? Not as good, for sure, but you can't question Montana's abilities just because he had an amazing team around him.

Same goes for probably 98% of all good players the NFL has ever had.

I mean, there's truth to the argument you present, but in the context, it becomes a moot point. No doubt Moss is a special receiver (the best receiver since Rice, and probably the second best in history, only to Rice), and no doubt he accounted for an ungodly portion of Culpepper's offensive numbers.

But again, Moss had no effect on Culpepper's physical skills, and very little to do with what Culpepper was able to do in the open field.

An inhuman receiver like Moss WILL account for insane amounts of ANY quarterback's numbers. It's just the nature of the type of player he is. The WR that can go up and catch any ball, can outrun just about any defender, and so on.

I'm not trying to say Culpepper was some sort of all-time great, and I know where the numbers lie, but he was a special talent, numbers aside, and it's hard to argue against that.

And regarding his last season in Minnesota, there's no doubt he was already suffering from a huge decline, but Moss didn't have that much to do with Culpepper's terrible TD/Int ratio. Also, like we always say about baseball, it's a rather small sample size to make such concrete judgments on.

[haveacigar]

Keep in mind that aside from Moss, the Vikings WR corps was pretty much worthless. I can't even think of any other receivers from that era. Nate Burleson? Troy Williamson? That's why his numbers are going to be so skewed % wise.

I'd love to see Culpepper on the Vikings now, with AP to hand off to and some solid but no standout WRs on the roster. Too bad. Why can't Jon Kitna rip up his knee instead?

[justanewguy]

Keep in mind that aside from Moss, the Vikings WR corps was pretty much worthless. I can't even think of any other receivers from that era. Nate Burleson? Troy Williamson? That's why his numbers are going to be so skewed % wise.

Well, there was this guy named Cris Carter... he just so happens to be second on the all time list for receptions, and sixth in all-time receiving yards. I can't remember if he was any good or not, though... :)


I'd love to see Culpepper on the Vikings now, with AP to hand off to and some solid but no standout WRs on the roster. Too bad. Why can't Jon Kitna rip up his knee instead?

I hate Kitna...

[etothep]

And regarding his last season in Minnesota, there's no doubt he was already suffering from a huge decline, but Moss didn't have that much to do with Culpepper's terrible TD/Int ratio. Also, like we always say about baseball, it's a rather small sample size to make such concrete judgments on.

No one is making concrete judgements, but I think half a season of work is at least a decent trend. You don't believe a QB losing his best WR is going to affect his td/int ratio?




Ok. Then we can just take away Marvin Harrison when he was at his peak 4 or so years ago.

The point is, you take away a big-time receiver from any QB and his numbers are bound to drop, but that losing a big-time receiver isn't going to complete ruin or make or break a guy's career, like you're insinuating it did here. I'd assume the knee injury did more damage, literally and figuratively, than losing Moss did. And similarly, when you give a big-time wide receiver to any QB, his numbers are bound to improve (see Tom Brady last season and prior to).

Marvin Harrison's best 5 year span of his career, statistically, was from 1999-2003. He accounted for 35.9% of Manning's yards & 44% of his TDs. This past season was the first where Manning was without Harrison (limited action in 5 games...20 catches, 247 yds, 1 td). Manning still threw over 4,000 yds & had over 30 TDs. To put it in perspective, Culpepper surpassed 4,000 yds just once & 30 TDs just twice. For all purposes, Harrison with Manning is a rather apt comparison to Moss with Culpepper, however their numbers without their respective top WR weren't exactly similar (granted Manning's was over a full season, I still doubt many saw Culpepper as ready to explode for a 3,000 yd, 25 TD season with a huge second half)




Keep in mind that aside from Moss, the Vikings WR corps was pretty much worthless. I can't even think of any other receivers from that era. Nate Burleson? Troy Williamson? That's why his numbers are going to be so skewed % wise.

As already mentioned, he did have a guy who many consider one of the best WRs ever in Chris Carter. Burleson also surpassed 1,000 yds w/ 9 tds in his second season & had 9 tds as a 3rd WR in Seattle last season.


again I state, that people are free to interpret the stats how they like

[justanewguy]

No one is making concrete judgements, but I think half a season of work is at least a decent trend. You don't believe a QB losing his best WR is going to affect his td/int ratio?

Somewhat, but not to the point of turning it from 3.5/1 to 1/2. That has to have other factors involved. The lack of Moss isn't making Culpepper's INT% increase by 150%.


Marvin Harrison's best 5 year span of his career, statistically, was from 1999-2003. He accounted for 35.9% of Manning's yards & 44% of his TDs. This past season was the first where Manning was without Harrison (limited action in 5 games...20 catches, 247 yds, 1 td). Manning still threw over 4,000 yds & had over 30 TDs. To put it in perspective, Culpepper surpassed 4,000 yds just once & 30 TDs just twice.

Can't really compare Culpepper to Manning (who has a shot at going down as the greatest QB ever), or even lesser QBs than Manning. Like I said before, I'm not saying Culpepper is an all-time great, but it's hard to deny 2 things:

1) He was a damn good QB, where most QBs fail in the NFL
2) He had remarkable physical/athletic abilities for a QB

And that's really the point about Culpepper. He was one of very, very few physical freak QBs that went on to have success in the NFL out of college.


As already mentioned, he did have a guy who many consider one of the best WRs ever in Chris Carter. Burleson also surpassed 1,000 yds w/ 9 tds in his second season 7 had 9 tds as a 3rd WR in Seattle last season.

Burleson is an underrated receiver, and an excellent role player. A very good WR.

Really, there's no argument here, I'm just saying Culpepper was a *good* QB with *outstanding* physical attributes. 609 rushing yards and 10 rushing touchdowns in 2002, for instance, speak to that. That's something Moss didn't have much to do with. Yes, I understand a WR stretches a defense and takes defenders away from the line of scrimmage, but Moss isn't that far above other WRs when it comes to allowing a QB room to run.

Outside of the numbers, Culpepper was one hell of a QB to WATCH, because of his size, speed, athleticism, and arm. That's really the point. I'm not sure the NFL will see anything like it again, at least not anytime soon. He was maybe a top 5 QB for a few years, but outside of that, I'm not trying to make him out to be some sort of football god.

And back to what I said a while ago, I don't miss the name or the numbers, but it was very cool to watch a new type of QB have success and help put his team in contention for a few seasons.

[Arctic Blast]

Certainly, not having Moss and Carter to throw to anymore hurt him. That knee injury, though, was catastrophic. And to try and come back and start again at the beginning of the next season, even though everyone KNEW he wasn't healthy, and it was obvious he was hobbled by it, just made things even worse. And I think it punctured his confidence, to struggle like that, and ANY pro athlete who loses their confidence is finished. That's it.

I get the impression that Culpepper ended up rather embittered by the whole thing, which is certainly understandable to a certain extent. And I really don't see him showing up on a network...he has never really shown any interest or propensity for doing anything like that.

Of course, he pretty much has to be an upgrade from Emmitt Smith...ugh...:(

[gRYFYN1]

Outside of the numbers, Culpepper was one hell of a QB to WATCH, because of his size, speed, athleticism, and arm.


There's a few things at play here.

Mainly, since he shredded his knee in '05 he no longer had the speed or athletcism.

While it seems odd he would retire, Culpepper is whispered to have certain attitude problems that clash with ownership, other players and ccoaches/

[ohms_law]

I hear that he killed his own children and ate them, too!

[reflections]

Culpepper was never the same after he got hurt.
He had new chances in both Miami and Oakland and was never better than any of the medicore backups they had there.
He could of signed with Pittsburgh, but wanted a chance to compete with Big Ben.
He should of took two years off after he got hurt.
Healed up completely and then tried a comeback.
Now he is just another player who had great skills, some good years (one great one) and then got injured.

[gRYFYN1]

I even heard on ATH that there may be collusion on the part of teams, on the level of Barry Bonds type collusion, to keep him out of the league.

Its not really collusion, but if you take two players who are about equal and one has an abbrasive personality and dosen't want to be a back up and the other is fine with it and does what he can to help the team, which would you take .... well 32 NFL teams agree with that.

[Arctic Blast]

Actually, he sort of mentions that stuff in his letter, talking about how too many teams just want you to come in and be a mindless drone, which is true.

[etothep]

Actually, he sort of mentions that stuff in his letter, talking about how too many teams just want you to come in and be a mindless drone, which is true.

What teams would be interested in him...Ravens, 49ers, Vikings? All are pretty young offensively, so bringing in a guy who seems to be more content in looking out for himself than the team would lead some to believe he wouldn't be the best influence on the younger guys


Just making those assumptions based off of what others say about Culpepper, so yes there's the chance that hes actually the definition of selfless & is an a+ teammate, etc

[Arctic Blast]

Well, I know a lot of executives have given anonymous quotes that he isn't a guy who will just 'go with the program'...really, pro sports teams do not like guys who are independent thinkers. They aren't necessarily bad for a team, but they won't just tow the party line, and a lot of coaches demand players who will just follow what they say and not ask questions.

[etothep]

I can't even think of any other receivers from that era. Nate Burleson? That's why his numbers are going to be so skewed % wise.

Touchdown Nate Burleson :p

[Arctic Blast]

Touchdown Nate Burleson :p

And, being a Seahawk receiver, he is promptly injured.

Seriously, is there some sort of hex placed on Seattle wide receivers??? They're more brittle than melba toast.

[asianinvasion]

And, being a Seahawk receiver, he is promptly injured.

Seriously, is there some sort of hex placed on Seattle wide receivers??? They're more brittle than melba toast.

Burleson is out for the year. What is wrong with the receivers in Seattle? We'll probably have Courtney Taylor and Jordan Kent start next week.

On a side note, Daunte jumped the gun a little early on this one. He could have been with Moss in NE.

[OregonDuck1989]

Jordan Kent! Oregon boy!

[Arctic Blast]

Burleson is out for the year. What is wrong with the receivers in Seattle? We'll probably have Courtney Taylor and Jordan Kent start next week.

On a side note, Daunte jumped the gun a little early on this one. He could have been with Moss in NE.

Nothing's wrong with them, except that cannot seem to stay healthy!

Oh, and there is no way in Hell Daunte would have ever ended up in New England. Belichick is a control freak, and he does NOT tolerate players who like to speak their minds and go their own way.

[Rongar]

Daunte could play up here?...if he didn't mind being paid in wooden nickels?

[dannymac910]

He could probably throw touchdowns with his penis.