The Greatest Hitter who ever lived

[twinsGM]

That's been Ted Williams' nickname ever since he retired, and it has stayed his because he was a very good hitter, but does he still deserve that title? I love the Red Sox, but what's past is past, so not to disrespect Teddy Ballgame or anything, but are any current-day hitters better than Ted back in the day?

[HoustonGM]

In terms of pure hitting value, no, Ted Williams isn't the greatest hitter who ever lived. That distinction goes to Babe Ruth. In terms of hitting ability, I have no idea, and there's no way to quantify that other than to look at his performance/value.

I do think Williams is 2nd to Ruth, though, even counting the modern day players. Bonds comes up 3rd.

[dps]

Yeah, I would generally agree with HGM.

[actionjackson]

Best hitter ever: Babe Ruth
Best left handed hitter ever: Babe Ruth
Best right handed hitter ever: Rogers Hornsby
Best switch hitter ever: Mickey Mantle
Best hitter of the last 20 years: Barry Bonds
Best current hitter: Albert Pujols

and to answer your question twinsGM, no modern day hitter can match the "Splendid Splinter". The only historical hitter that beats him is the Bambino.

[reflections]

I knew Teddy Ballgame gets all the pub about being great, what about Stan the Man? and how come Ty Cobb isn't up there?

[HoustonGM]

I knew Teddy Ballgame gets all the pub about being great, what about Stan the Man? and how come Ty Cobb isn't up there?
They're all "up there."

Cobb: .366/.433/.512, 167 OPS+
Musial: .331/.417/.559, 159 OPS+
Williams: .344/.482/.634, 191 OPS+

[dickay]

They're all "up there."

Cobb: .366/.433/.512, 167 OPS+
Musial: .331/.417/.559, 159 OPS+
Williams: .344/.482/.634, 191 OPS+

how does gehrig rate with these three?

[HoustonGM]

how does gehrig rate with these three?
Gehrig hit .340/.447/.632, 179 OPS+

Mickey Mantle's raw numbers pale in comparison to these guys - .298/.421/.557 - but his OPS+ is 172, because he spent a good deal of his career playing in poor offensive environments.

[ohms_law]

I'd actually put Bonds above Williams. Sorry, I know I'm not making any friends with that, but the fact is that Bonds played against much better players then Williams.
Babe Ruth still stands head and shoulders above everyone. No one else even comes close.

[metsguy234]

I'm not much of a Ruth fan. I gotta put Williams first, Mays, Cobb, Musial, Aaron all up there, Ruth falls a bit back... I think most of his perceived greatness is just because of his legend...

[HoustonGM]

I'm not much of a Ruth fan. I gotta put Williams first, Mays, Cobb, Musial, Aaron all up there, Ruth falls a bit back... I think most of his perceived greatness is just because of his legend...
Yeah. His legend. It has nothing to do with him outhomering entire teams. Nothing to do with his 714 home runs, .342 batting average, .474 on-base percentage, or .690 slugging percentage, (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ruthba01.shtml) the latter of which is 56 points higher than the second-place guy, Ted Williams. :rolleyes:

His fully deserved legend comes from the fact that he was an absolutely monstrous player, the likes of which the game never saw before, and hasn't seen since.

Metsguy, I'm telling you this for your own good. You really need to learn how to separate your likes and dislikes from your evaluation of players.

[ohms_law]

Yea, I couldn't agree more. The statements above, to be blunt about it, make you look... less then intelligent.

[ragecage]

Bonds may be great but Ruth's homer totals from some years was more than teams combined, he is by far the greatest hitter to ever live. He was heads above the competition.

[200tang]

How do players from the negro league stack up? I don't know much about it but maybe someone here does.

[ragecage]

How do players from the negro league stack up? I don't know much about it but maybe someone here does.

Josh Gibson would stack up well, its just unfortunate they didnt keep accurate stats.

[metsguy234]

Yeah. His legend. It has nothing to do with him outhomering entire teams. Nothing to do with his 714 home runs, .342 batting average, .474 on-base percentage, or .690 slugging percentage, (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ruthba01.shtml) the latter of which is 56 points higher than the second-place guy, Ted Williams. :rolleyes:

His fully deserved legend comes from the fact that he was an absolutely monstrous player, the likes of which the game never saw before, and hasn't seen since.

Metsguy, I'm telling you this for your own good. You really need to learn how to separate your likes and dislikes from your evaluation of players.

I actually wasn't aware that he had a career AVG of .342, I was assuming somewhere around .260

[dickay]

I only mentioned Gehrig because I find he's rarely included in these discussions and it befuddles me. Aaron, Mays, Cobb, even Mantle IMO are not close to Gehrigs level. After Ruth and Williams, there's a drop off and then there's Gehrig. And then there's another drop off to the remainder. Gehrig was awesome. To me, these three slots are not debatable.

[metsguy234]

I only mentioned Gehrig because I find he's rarely included in these discussions and it befuddles me. Aaron, Mays, Cobb, even Mantle IMO are not close to Gehrigs level. After Ruth and Williams, there's a drop off and then there's Gehrig. And then there's another drop off to the remainder. Gehrig was awesome. To me, these three slots are not debatable.

To me... I hate Gehrig, so he doesn't factor into my discussion...

[boomboom]

Do you even look at Baseball Stats, most Baseball fans know Ruths stats by heart. He was the best player to ever grace the game. As HGM Said, he even outhomered total teams. It is laughable to think Ruth is a .260 hitter. He was a man before his time. He walked a ton, had power and could hit for average. In his younger years, he had speed too. He also was a great pitcher in his years with Baltimore and Boston.

[HoustonGM]

I actually wasn't aware that he had a career AVG of .342, I was assuming somewhere around .260
You do this often. Learn to use www.baseball-reference.com.


I only mentioned Gehrig because I find he's rarely included in these discussions and it befuddles me. Aaron, Mays, Cobb, even Mantle IMO are not close to Gehrigs level. After Ruth and Williams, there's a drop off and then there's Gehrig. And then there's another drop off to the remainder. Gehrig was awesome. To me, these three slots are not debatable.
I put Bonds ahead of Gehrig, but Gehrig's likely 4th for me.


To me... I hate Gehrig, so he doesn't factor into my discussion...
Why do you do this? Honestly. Why do you let your personal opinion of players (well, since you were born over half-a-century after these players, it's more your personal opinion of the franchise they played for) affect your EVALUATION of players? This isn't a favorite players discussion. It's "Who's the best hitter?"

[dickay]

Why do you do this? Honestly. Why do you let your personal opinion of players (well, since you were born over half-a-century after these players, it's more your personal opinion of the franchise they played for) affect your EVALUATION of players? This isn't a favorite players discussion. It's "Who's the best hitter?"

I'm a die hard Red Sox fan who hates the Yankees and joys in their struggles greatly.......however after Pedro Martinez, Mariano Rivera is my favorite player of alltime (who i've seen). Also, largely because Gehrig is so disrespected IMO (he's never mentioned early in great offensive player threads and talk) I have tremendous respect and admiration for him.

One can dislike a team and respect a player. Mariano to me is 1A...I awe at how the guy has 1 pitch really, and everyone knows the cut fastball is coming. One after another, season after season, he does nothing but throw that pitch and get people out better than any other closer ever. He's a machine...the Yanks do in fact plug him in at night. I am sure of it.

[KowboyKoop]

I'm not much of a Ruth fan. I gotta put Williams first, Mays, Cobb, Musial, Aaron all up there, Ruth falls a bit back... I think most of his perceived greatness is just because of his legend...

You should be ashamed of yourself. This is just downright ignorant and ridiculous.

[ragecage]

To me... I hate Gehrig, so he doesn't factor into my discussion...

How are you going to hate somebody that died like 70 years ago?

[actionjackson]

dickay, I put Gehrig at #4 as well behind Ruth, Williams, and Barry Bonds. Of course Gehrig appeared to have more grace than the other 3, but we're talking about the best hitters here. Rounding out the top 5 for me would be Rogers Hornsby.

[ragecage]

dickay, I put Gehrig at #4 as well behind Ruth, Williams, and Barry Bonds. Of course Gehrig appeared to have more grace than the other 3, but we're talking about the best hitters here. Rounding out the top 5 for me would be Rogers Hornsby.

You cant go wrong with this list. I would take out Gehrig and replace him with Cobb.

[etothep]

Josh Gibson would stack up well, its just unfortunate they didnt keep accurate stats.

sounds like metsguy's kind of league then :p



he won't get mentioned in here (due to injuries derailing his career), but Griff undoubtedly has the greatest swing the game has ever seen

[actionjackson]

The Iron Horse gets no respect. Rounding out my top 10 list: Mickey Mantle, Joe Jackson, Albert Pujols (assuming health), Ty Cobb and Jimmie Foxx. St. Louis Cardinals fans: you are watching one of the all-time greats, but you already knew that.

[ohms_law]

I agree with the sentiments about Gehrig... unfortunately, if he had been allowed a few more years to play...
:(

I always find the rivalry between him and Ruth interesting. It seems to me that they drove each other to greatness. Unfortunately, Gehrig's story is not really that of a great baseball player simply because his baseball story was overshadowed by both Ruth and his story as a human being battling disease. His life was tragically cut short, so it's hard to even really consider his baseball career in light of what happened to the man.

ps.: metsguy, you disgust me:

To me... I hate Gehrig, so he doesn't factor into my discussion...
How could you?
You're an ignorant, hateful little boy. Grow up.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

My top 10 would probably look something like...

1. Babe Ruth
2. Ted Williams
3. Barry Bonds (grudgingly)
4. Willie Mays
5. Lou Gehrig
6. Ty Cobb
7. Hank Aaron
8. Joe Dimaggio
9. Mickey Mantle
10. Albert Pujols

Honorable Mentions: Alex Rodriguez, Roger Hornsby, Stan Musial to name a few.

I expect Pujols and A-Rod to jump into the top five by the time they retire.

[Wassit3]

ps.: metsguy, you disgust me:

How could you?
You're an ignorant, hateful little boy. Grow up.

wow, I would expect better from a mod...

[Wassit3]

My top 10 would probably look something like...

1. Babe Ruth
2. Ted Williams
3. Barry Bonds (grudgingly)
4. Willie Mays
5. Lou Gehrig
6. Ty Cobb
7. Hank Aaron
8. Joe Dimaggio
9. Mickey Mantle
10. Albert Pujols

Honorable Mentions: Alex Rodriguez, Roger Hornsby, Stan Musial to name a few.

I expect Pujols and A-Rod to jump into the top five by the time they retire.

Mays ahead of Gehrig wow

[ohms_law]

wow, I would expect better from a mod...

yea, well, there comes a point...
anyway, I didn't (and will not) say anything about it "as a moderator". If metsguy or anyone else wants to say insulting and denigrating things aobut someone with a degenerative nerve condition though... well, let's just say that he's lucky I'm not wearing a "moderator hat" right now and leave it at that.

[Wassit3]

yea, well, there comes a point...
anyway, I didn't (and will not) say anything about it "as a moderator". If metsguy or anyone else wants to say insulting and denigrating things aobut someone with a degenerative nerve condition though... well, let's just say that he's lucky I'm not wearing a "moderator hat" right now and leave it at that.

fine but I fail to see how stooping to their level improves things..just my two cents and I am one of the biggest jerks on this board....

[ohms_law]

No, I agree... it's just... this does disgust me. I can overlook intentional ignorance and irrational bias to the fact that he's just young, big deal, so what. Stopping to this level is inexcusable in my opinion though, and I'd rather stoop to nearly his level then simply let it go.

Sorry. Not to him, but to the community.

[ragecage]

No, I agree... it's just... this does disgust me. I can overlook intentional ignorance and irrational bias to the fact that he's just young, big deal, so what. Stopping to this level is inexcusable in my opinion though, and I'd rather stoop to nearly his level then simply let it go.

Sorry. Not to him, but to the community.

I think youre doing just fine ohms. :)