Barry Larkin

[Jeffy25]

Hall of Famer?

he is close.....but 12 time all star,
9 Silver Sluggers
3 GG's (bc of ozzie)

first shortstop to ever be a 30-30 guy

won a world series

2300 hits, 198 homers, 370 sb's.....295 hitter.....but how close is he to the hall? what would he have needed?

[HoustonGM]

He's absolutely deserving.

Whether or not the writers that denied Alan Trammell will see it is a different story.

[grasshopper]

Larkin is considered a shoe in.

[metsguy234]

That kind of offensive production as a shortstop makes him certainly deserving.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

I didn't know this was even a question. :p

[Jeffy25]

then why isn't he in?

[rockiesfan4ever]

then why isn't he in?

He retired at the end of the 2004 season and 2010 is his first year of eligibility

[oriole^]

I'd say yes, though it is a bit close. He's not remembered as spectacular defensively because of Ozzie, and not remember as spectacular offensively because of Cal...but I think the numbers speak for themselves.

[Lex Logan]

I'd take "The Captain" back over any other player in Reds history except Frank Robinson. I didn't watch much baseball during his career but what I saw of Larkin I loved. And boy do we need a shortstop, team leader, and winner these days!

[Jeffy25]

He retired at the end of the 2004 season and 2010 is his first year of eligibility

wow!!!!!!!!!!!! total brain fart!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sorry ladies.

[eggson27]

yes definitely

[rockiesfan4ever]

wow!!!!!!!!!!!! total brain fart!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sorry ladies.

I mean you are just on the internet and couldn't look that up

[RickD]

Definite YES!

[Jeffy25]

I mean you are just on the internet and couldn't look that up

i just didn't think about the five years.....i knew when he retired, just didn't put it together.

[rockiesfan4ever]

i just didn't think about the five years.....i knew when he retired, just didn't put it together.

ahh ok

[wahoosamC]

Larkins>>>>>Jeter

[metsguy234]

Larkins>>>>>Jeter

No.

[200tang]

Hmm..Jeter and Larkin huh? Well...

Offensively Jeter has a career OPS+ of 120 compared to Larkin's 116. I would agree that Jeter has been better over his career, but it's really close.

Base Running - Larkin is the better base runner both in spd score and by simply looking at SB/CS.

Defensively - No idea. Going off reputation Jeter would be amazing, so I can't really say anything about him, but the UZR numbers we do have paint Larkin as below average. However, those years were the last 3 years at the end of his career and his last 2 seasons weren't full.

[dps]

The only knock on Larkin as a HoFer is that he never lead his league in any positive offensive category. But he finished among the leaders in several categories multiple times, won an MVP, was the starting SS on a WS winner, had a bunch of All-Star appearances, and won 3 Gold Gloves. I don't want to say that he's a lock, because frankly I think that the writers are getting worse in how they vote, not better, but he certainly should be in.

[HoustonGM]

The biggest knock on Larkin, I think, is lack of in-season durability. Of course, it isn't enough to outweigh all the positives.

[HoustonGM]

Larkins>>>>>Jeter
WAR:

http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/l/larkb001.htm
Larkin: 68.8 career

http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/j/jeted001.htm
Jeter: 62.2 career (not including this year)

If Jeter retired today, it might be a slight edge for Larkin...but Jeter's not close to done. Jeter's going to wind up one of the top 5-6 shortstops in history, defensive warts and all.

[Vance]

gotta go with no. the roids broke down his body. he must have been taking them wrong since he was always injured. then again he didn't have any of those latinos on the team to teach him how.

[wahoosamC]

Jeter is garbage defensively, Larkin has the edge over him.

[HoustonGM]

Jeter is garbage defensively, Larkin has the edge over him.
Jeter beats him offensively and in durability.

[wahoosamC]

WAR:

http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/l/larkb001.htm
Larkin: 68.8 career

http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/j/jeted001.htm
Jeter: 62.2 career (not including this year)

If Jeter retired today, it might be a slight edge for Larkin...but Jeter's not close to done. Jeter's going to wind up one of the top 5-6 shortstops in history, defensive warts and all.

So in roughly the same PA's Larkin has the higher war score, and it will probably take another couple hundred for Jeter to pass him.

Due to his longevity Jeter will pass Larkin in counting stats, but I'd say when both were healthy, Larkin was the better/more dominant player.

[Jeffy25]

if you had a vote, who would vote him in?

[HoustonGM]

Everyone that's spoken so far it looks like. :p

[Jeffy25]

well a few have said no, i guess just vance though.

i guess my question was somewhat retarded.....i would vote him in, and i never liked him :p

[Swampdog]

I agree with Wahoo.....Larkin was a better player than Jeter.

The reason that Jeter leads in OPS+ (120-116) is because he hasnt had the late career decline phase yet. Larkin had an OPS+ of 121 through age 36, then had 4 years below his normal offensive production. Jeter will be 36 next year, so we'll have to see how he holds up.

Larkin was a better hitter in his best 10 consecutive years as well (129 OPS+ to 126), and had six seasons above 130 to just two for Jeter. Its true, of course, that Jeter has been more durable and averaged more games during his career, so he gets credit for that.

My theory is, as I once illustrated in the Mays-Mantle debate, that when we say "better", we are talking about players at their best, not who had more value over a career. Hence, with Larkin a better hitter, a better baserunner, and a better fielder at his best (vs Jeter's best), and Jeter getting an edge only in the health category, I would say that its clear that Larkin was a better player, and I dont see it as very close.

A better question, to me, is; Who gets in the HOF first, Larkin or Alomar?

[HoustonGM]

If the writers were smart, they'd both go in together.

[dps]

If the writers were smart, they'd both go in together.

That's a big IF. It could happen, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[Swampdog]

Larkin goes on the second ballot, I think...then Alomar sometime later. Just a guess.

[HoustonGM]

Larkin goes on the second ballot, I think...then Alomar sometime later. Just a guess.
I wouldn't doubt it, given the writers.

They whine and complain about how people don't appreciate the "guys that do the little things" and "would rather wait for the 3 run home run than make things happen" or other such nonsense, but then when it comes to the Hall of Fame and awards, they fall for the big RBI numbers and ignore the guys who have value spread across all facets of the game (see: Joe Mauer in MVP awards, Alan Trammel in the HoF, etc.). Larkin and Alomar, of course, fit into the latter category.