Offensive Team Names

[Slingshot]

http://allhailredskins.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/washington_redskins_logo.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redskin_%28slang%29

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/images/clevelandindians.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_mascot_controversy



Do you think they're offensive?

[200tang]

The Redskins are worse than the Indians. I think the logos are more insulting than the names, but I can definitely see why some people would be insulted by them.

I honestly don't see the difference between those and making a team called the Alabama Negroes with a logo of a black guy smiling.

[filihok]

Not sure.

I've always thought you name your team something positive. There are few teams called the 'sissies' or 'losers'.

I do understand why people could take offense.

[gRYFYN1]

I can see why "Redskins" may be offersive, but not "Indians", several teams are named after specific groups of poeple whether it be the Patriots, Dodgers, Kiwis, Fighting Irish, Canucks etc.

Same holds for the Redskins Logo, I can't fathom why that would be offesive, but the old TB logo for instance wouldn't.

The Indians logo, i guess maybe i could see it, but its not like that was the only cartoonish logo to ever existit, it was simply the least redicilous looking and the most Iconic one (really based on the team)

[etothep]

Middlesex Crusaders (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/4434777/Middlesex-Crusaders-cricket-team-changes-name-after-complaints-from-Muslims-and-Jews.html)

[gRYFYN1]

Middlesex Crusaders (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/4434777/Middlesex-Crusaders-cricket-team-changes-name-after-complaints-from-Muslims-and-Jews.html)

I do find the mention od "sex" in a school name as highly inappropriate and offensive .....

.. that is what you getting at right ??

[StreetMedic]

I've got American Indian blood coursing through my veins. Not a huge amount: I not trying to convince anyone I live in a tee pee, or anything. But, it's part of my heritage, nonetheless...

I couldn't care less about team mascots or logos.

In fact, on the contrary, I happen to like the Cleveland Indians and the Atlanta Braves.

Hell, I identify with being American, before anything else, anyway, and I'm more offended by some of the cr@p I read here than by some sports team's name. And, hey, I still love you guys, right? :D

[FloydtheBarber]

I do find the mention od "sex" in a school name as highly inappropriate and offensive .....

.. that is what you getting at right ??

The Crusades are a pretty offensive thing to be utilizing in a name as well...

[HoustonGM]

I sort of get why people find them very offensive, but I just don't.

[SirKodiak]

"We wanted more kids to pick up a cricket bat, that's why it was devised. We were on a crusade to get children into cricket."

From Websters:
crusade 2 : a remedial enterprise undertaken with zeal and enthusiasm

remedial: 1 : intended as a remedy

---

As for the Redskins, Websters says: usually offensive : AMERICAN INDIAN

Indians: 2 a : american indian

Anyhow, I believe if the Cleveland Indians changed their name to the Cleveland Caucasians with a cartoonish mascot that after perhaps initial complaints from some whites, that most complaints would come from people of color because the name was glorifying a race.

Are there people in the South who complain about the Yankees name?

[StreetMedic]

Are there people in the South who complain about the Yankees name?

Good point. Not sure how that snuck by me.

[rschusta24]

From Websters:
crusade 2 : a remedial enterprise undertaken with zeal and enthusiasm

remedial: 1 : intended as a remedy

---

As for the Redskins, Websters says: usually offensive : AMERICAN INDIAN

Indians: 2 a : american indian

Anyhow, I believe if the Cleveland Indians changed their name to the Cleveland Caucasians with a cartoonish mascot that after perhaps initial complaints from some whites, that most complaints would come from people of color because the name was glorifying a race.

Are there people in the South who complain about the Yankees name?

Well I am always offended when a southerner calls me a Yankee. I hate that. Or even when I was over in England. Man that pisses me off!

[KowboyKoop]

Should be changed. Not offensive to me personally, but definitely offensive to some...and they should be accomodated.

[Swampdog]

I also have native american heritage....a grandmother. The names (Indians, Redskins)are not the least bit offensive to me.

They should NOt be changed. You're never going to make everyone happy, no matter what. There's a certain percentage of the people in this world who just have to have something to complain about.

[KowboyKoop]

I also have native american heritage....a grandmother. The names (Indians, Redskins)are not the least bit offensive to me.

They should NOt be changed. You're never going to make everyone happy, no matter what. There's a certain percentage of the people in this world who just have to have something to complain about.

Being offended at sports teams based on people's ethnicities is hardly some trivial matter that people are just complaining about just to complain about. It's a matter of respect and it's considered racially offensive to a significant number of people. If you're not offended, that's cool, but it's not just some small insignificant thing....it's concerning people's culture, heritage, and ethnicity.

[Swampdog]

Being offended at sports teams based on people's ethnicities is hardly some trivial matter that people are just complaining about just to complain about. It's a matter of respect and it's considered racially offensive to a significant number of people. If you're not offended, that's cool, but it's not just some small insignificant thing....it's concerning people's culture, heritage, and ethnicity.

It's a crock.

[KowboyKoop]

It's a crock.

Caricatures of ethnic groups is something worth complaining about. It's not like people are complaining about the Red Sox b/c they don't like how "socks" are portrayed..it's an ethnic group...you know, the ethnic group that Americans slaughtered and kicked off their own land just because we wanted to.

[filihok]

It's a crock.

I'd like to hear a bit more persuasive of an argument from you on this

[KowboyKoop]

If there were a team called the "Atlanta Blacks" there would be an ENORMOUS outrage and I'd be willing to bet that 98% of people here would be for having that team name changes. There is no difference between that and the "Redskins" and the numerous other caricatures and portrayals of Native Americans in this country in all forms..including sports.

[Swampdog]

Here you go: Find a real problem to whine about. You know, something a little more important than a team nickname. And I do believe that a segment of the population is just determined to bend everyone else to their will, and no subject is too petty for them to make an issue of.

[filihok]

Here you go: Find a real problem to whine about. You know, something a little more important than a team nickname. And I do believe that a segment of the population is just determined to bend everyone else to their will, and no subject is too petty for them to make an issue of.



If there were a team called the "Atlanta Blacks" there would be an ENORMOUS outrage and I'd be willing to bet that 98% of people here would be for having that team name changes. There is no difference between that and the "Redskins" and the numerous other caricatures and portrayals of Native Americans in this country in all forms..including sports.


Gotta go KK on this one

[KowboyKoop]

Here you go: Find a real problem to whine about. You know, something a little more important than a team nickname. And I do believe that a segment of the population is just determined to bend everyone else to their will, and no subject is too petty for them to make an issue of.

Yes, there are people like that in the world, there is a line that can be crossed where things become too petty to complain about..but being offended because of how your ethnicity/race is portrayed is FAR from crossing that line.

I'm not saying you personally have to be offended and be demanding change...but to act like it's "a crock" is just sad.

Again..you okay with a team being called the "blacks?" The "wetbacks?" The chinks?? This okay to you?



EDIT: ..and they are complaining about a lot more than "just" the sports team names....it's about the entire portrayal of their ethnicity. The team names is just a small part of that.

[Swampdog]

If there were a team called the "Atlanta Blacks" there would be an ENORMOUS outrage and I'd be willing to bet that 98% of people here would be for having that team name changes. There is no difference between that and the "Redskins" and the numerous other caricatures and portrayals of Native Americans in this country in all forms..including sports.

Who cares? I don't. The New England Negroes, the Atlanta Hispanics, the Dallas Caucasians, the San Francisco Gays, the Detroit Catholics....who gives a sh!t? Its a meaningless word. Nothing more.

Yeah, its such a great idea to waste time and energy on THIS. If you (anyone, nobody specifically) have no more serious problems in your life, you are doing quite well.

[Swampdog]

Yes, there are people like that in the world, there is a line that can be crossed where things become too petty to complain about..but being offended because of how your ethnicity/race is portrayed is FAR from crossing that line.

I'm not saying you personally have to be offended and be demanding change...but to act like it's "a crock" is just sad.

Again..you okay with a team being called the "blacks?" The "wetbacks?" The chinks?? This okay to you?



EDIT: ..and they are complaining about a lot more than "just" the sports team names....it's about the entire portrayal of their ethnicity. The team names is just a small part of that.

There is no need to ask me any questions on this subject. I will not respond again. Its complete bullsh!t, as far as I'm concerned.

If you want to carry the banner for this garbage, then do so. Actually, I don't care one way or another. I just know that I would not vote to change the name of any team (none that I can think of). Thats it. I'm not signing up.

[KowboyKoop]

Who cares? I don't. The New England Negroes, the Atlanta Hispanics, the Dallas Caucasians, the San Francisco Gays, the Detroit Catholics....who gives a sh!t? Its a meaningless word. Nothing more.

Yeah, its such a great idea to waste time and energy on THIS. If you (anyone, nobody specifically) have no more serious problems in your life, you are doing quite well.

Yes, I have clearly said that this is the biggest problem in my life...even though I clearly said in my first post that I am not personally offended, I just feel that it should be changed because quite a few people are offended.

I'd love to see you go a gym, organize a pickup basketball game, get some black people on your team, and then declare out loud that your team name is going to be "the Blacks" or "the Negroes." I mean, it's meaningless, so you should be fine.

[gRYFYN1]

But why exactly is Redskin consider offensive? Redskin was never intend or really used as a derogatory term, some theroies say the term derived from Native Americans themselves.

Referring to some as Black isn't considered offensive, why then does it become offensive if attached to a team name?

[etothep]

Referring to some as Black isn't considered offensive, why then does it become offensive if attached to a team name?

Can't say that I see the Washington Blacks fly as a team name

[gRYFYN1]

You really think the Washington Blacks would fly as a team name?

Doesn't answer the question I asked, why would it then be offensive, If referring to some one as black isn't?

[filihok]

But why exactly is Redskin consider offensive? Redskin was never intend or really used as a derogatory term, some theroies say the term derived from Native Americans themselves.

Referring to some as Black isn't considered offensive, why then does it become offensive if attached to a team name?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-plaschke18-2009sep18,0,3967721.column?page=2


If you saw a Native American on the street, would you call that person a redskin?

I think something becomes offensive if people are offended by it.

[etothep]

Doesn't answer the question I asked, why would it then be offensive, If referring to some one as black isn't?

Let's add the Miami Jews to the league also, the more the merrier

[eggson27]

I agree with my city-mate 100% on this one

[KowboyKoop]

But why exactly is Redskin consider offensive? Redskin was never intend or really used as a derogatory term, some theroies say the term derived from Native Americans themselves.

Referring to some as Black isn't considered offensive, why then does it become offensive if attached to a team name?

The term "redskin" may not be a blatant insult...and I don't think people mean it as an insult, but it is quite clearly offensive...Native Americans (in general, not all..) hate the term. It is offensive to them..simple as that.

..and no, calling someone black isn't offensive..but calling a team "the Blacks" would quite clearly not fly. Substitute the term "negroes" or the other 'n' word if you wish...same idea.

[TheNamelessPoet]

If you feel offended by someone being called black? do you feel offended when someone calls you white?

[eggson27]

I feel somewhat offended when someone calls me "Jew."

[KowboyKoop]

If you feel offended by someone being called black? do you feel offended when someone calls you white?

Calling someone black is not offensive. Nobody has claimed this...but if there were an NBA team called the "Whites," you bet your ass there'd be a ton of people offended by it. There is a difference....YOU may not be personally offended...but many would be.

[TheNamelessPoet]

I feel somewhat offended when someone calls me "Jew." but thats what you are (assuming of course you are in fact Jewish)

Its like me being upset being called "White" aS FOR "Black" bein insulting....
My father who is black has always said he was NOT "African- American" He is an amarican who is Black. Cause I hate to break it to most of you... if u want to use African-American (which is wrong in many cases anyway) then most of us are European-Americans :p

[TheNamelessPoet]

Calling someone black is not offensive. Nobody has claimed this...but if there were an NBA team called the "Whites," you bet your ass there'd be a ton of people offended by it. There is a difference....YOU may not be personally offended...but many would be.

Therin lies the problem... you cant please anyone... someone will ALWAYS be offended

[HoustonGM]

The baseball team for Colorado is clearly offensive to rocks.

[200tang]

Therin lies the problem... you cant please anyone... someone will ALWAYS be offended

uhh no they won't. I don't think a team called the Colorado Rockies is offending anyone and even if it is it's probably like 2 people as opposed to an entire community. I mean..there's a difference. If you can't see the difference then I don't know what to say to you.

[200tang]

The baseball team for Colorado is clearly offensive to rocks.

thx for posting the same thing at the same time :|

Weird we both chose Colorado..

[HoustonGM]

I've heard many a sailor be offended at the Seattle Mariners.

[200tang]

I've heard many a sailor be offended at the Seattle Mariners.

I haven't >.>

[HoustonGM]

I haven't >.>
Surely you've heard of the 7+ feet tall people that are offended by the Giants?

[200tang]

Surely you've heard of the 7+ feet tall people that are offended by the Giants?

http://static.squidoo.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/draft_lens1974604module9446507photo_1210248984giant2471424820_90ee870eb0.jpg

it's coming to get you!

[Ninetyfourgoali]

what about the sets of twins that want the Twins to change their name?

[DiceDig]

Everything is offensive to at least one person. Thus, no name will ever please everyone.

[eggson27]

http://static.squidoo.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/draft_lens1974604module9446507photo_1210248984giant2471424820_90ee870eb0.jpg

it's coming to get you!

That is by far one of the weirdest things I have ever seen

[HoustonGM]

But really, it seems that most of the outrage over the Indians and Redskins comes from white people. I haven't heard one Native American be outraged by the names...from those in this thread to Jacoby Ellsbury. *shrug*

[Keppinger]

This shouldn't even be an issue.

Once a team loses to the Lions I'm pretty sure they are thrown out of the league.

[KowboyKoop]

But really, it seems that most of the outrage over the Indians and Redskins comes from white people. I haven't heard one Native American be outraged by the names...from those in this thread to Jacoby Ellsbury. *shrug*

.......you talking about on this forum, or just in general...because if it's the latter, then you are sorely mistaken. The Native American "voice" is not heard very often by mainstream America, but I promise you that there is a significant segment of Native Americans that are offended by some of the team names. Hell, look at all the high schools that have changed their names b/c of local protest.

It doesn't mean every Native American is offended or that every one that is offended has made this their #1 priority...but I sincerly hope you don't think that it's just white people that are outraged, b/c that's just not true at all.

[KowboyKoop]

Everything is offensive to at least one person. Thus, no name will ever please everyone.

As stated before, there is definitely a line that can be crossed where things just become too petty and insignificant..and where exactly that line is, that's up for debate, but derogatory terms that demean and mock ethnicities is not even close to approaching that line.

The "you can't please everyone argument" is a bad one. Just because "everyone can't be happy" doesn't give everyone free will to just use any term they want.

Hey, ragecage just got banned for making a joke in poor taste, and almost everyone agreed with it. Why? It was just a joke..and hey, you can't just outlaw every joke that could potentially offend somebody?? I mean, everyone can't be happy right?? Therefore, rage shouldn't have been banned??

[KowboyKoop]

...and if there was a team called the "Atlanta N***ers," I bet my life 98% of this board would be against it and would agree that it should be changed. There is not much difference between that term and what it means to black people and the term "redskin" and what it means to a lot of Native Americans. It's not as severe, but it's still a demeaning term.

[HoustonGM]

.......you talking about on this forum, or just in general...because if it's the latter, then you are sorely mistaken. The Native American "voice" is not heard very often by mainstream America, but I promise you that there is a significant segment of Native Americans that are offended by some of the team names. Hell, look at all the high schools that have changed their names b/c of local protest.

It doesn't mean every Native American is offended or that every one that is offended has made this their #1 priority...but I sincerly hope you don't think that it's just white people that are outraged, b/c that's just not true at all.
I said that I, personally, haven't heard any Native Americans express outrage at it.

[FloydtheBarber]

I also have native american heritage....a grandmother. The names (Indians, Redskins)are not the least bit offensive to me.

They should NOt be changed. You're never going to make everyone happy, no matter what. There's a certain percentage of the people in this world who just have to have something to complain about.

Same, I am of Native American heritage, and I actually like the logos and names. Chief Wahoo is ****in bad ASS

[KowboyKoop]

I said that I, personally, haven't heard any Native Americans express outrage at it.

Okay, so what does that have to do with anything? It's easy to see how you haven't heard of it, b/c the Native American voice is so underrepresented...but it's out there and it's a legitimate controversy that should be addressed.

[HoustonGM]

Okay, so what does that have to do with anything? It's easy to see how you haven't heard of it, b/c the Native American voice is so underrepresented...but it's out there and it's a legitimate controversy that should be addressed.
I'm just saying, most of the outrage I've read/seen/etc. has been from white people. Whatever Native Americans I've heard speak about it have been anywhere from apathetic to liking it. Just posting what I've heard.

[KowboyKoop]

Read some Ward Churchill or take some ethnic studies classes. Those are some good sources on the issue.

The sad part is that it's so common for the Native American voice to go unheard on so many issues. We came to this land, kicked them off their own land just because, slaughtered them, raped them, and now force them to be second-class citizens (in many situations; not all) in their own homeland. The "sports team name" issue is just a small part of the larger issue.

EDIT: ..and for the record, I'm not "outraged" about the team names, I just think it's sad when the issue is outright dismissed b/c "you can't please everybody." I think that's an extremely faulty argument and is an insult to Native Americans in and of itself.

[FloydtheBarber]

Read some Ward Churchill or take some ethnic studies classes. Those are some good sources on the issue.

The sad part is that it's so common for the Native American voice to go unheard on so many issues. We came to this land, kicked them off their own land just because, slaughtered them, raped them, and now force them to be second-class citizens (in many situations; not all) in their own homeland. The "sports team name" issue is just a small part of the larger issue.

EDIT: ..and for the record, I'm not "outraged" about the team names, I just think it's sad when the issue is outright dismissed b/c "you can't please everybody." I think that's an extremely faulty argument and is an insult to Native Americans in and of itself.
I do think the Americans were total dicks to the Natives, and what they did was extremely horrendous, and is still blatantly ignored

[KowboyKoop]

I do think the Americans were total dicks to the Natives, and what they did was extremely horrendous, and is still blatantly ignored

Therefore, can't you understand how some older Native Americans are offended by the demeaning term that Americans have given them? It's cool that you're not offended, but the ignoring and denying of a problem as a whole is what I am "outraged" by (though I'm not really that mad about it...hope I'm not coming across that way).

[HoustonGM]

Therefore, can't you understand how some older Native Americans are offended by the demeaning term that Americans have given them? It's cool that you're not offended, but the ignoring and denying of a problem as a whole is what I am "outraged" by (though I'm not really that mad about it...hope I'm not coming across that way).
My first post:

I sort of get why people find them very offensive, but I just don't.

[FloydtheBarber]

Therefore, can't you understand how some older Native Americans are offended by the demeaning term that Americans have given them? It's cool that you're not offended, but the ignoring and denying of a problem as a whole is what I am "outraged" by (though I'm not really that mad about it...hope I'm not coming across that way).

No, i can understand it, but I think it is not really intended to outrage them anymore. It almost glorifies them, it is like how some negro league teams would be the "New York Cubans", etc

[KowboyKoop]

My first post:

I know, then you made a bunch of jokes about rocks and giants being offended, then you said you have never heard a Native American express outrage over it. That is what I responded to.

[KowboyKoop]

No, i can understand it, but I think it is not really intended to outrage them anymore. It almost glorifies them, it is like how some negro league teams would be the "New York Cubans", etc

I agree that it isn't intended as an insult..I don't know about "glorifying" them, but I don't think they mean any harm, but it's still offensive to some.


As for many black baseball teams named "the Cubans," that started because black players wanted to convince white owners and other whites that they weren't black, they were Cuban or Latin American, b/c if the whites knew they were African-American, they would've been denied certain things...so they named themselves the Cubans to fool whites in that regard. It wasn't to glorify Cubans or anything.

[HoustonGM]

I know, then you made a bunch of jokes about rocks and giants being offended, then you said you have never heard a Native American express outrage over it. That is what I responded to.
The jokes were just that...jokes. And yeah, I haven't heard any Native American express outrage over it. But that doesn't mean that I don't understand why it can be offensive.

[KowboyKoop]

The jokes were just that...jokes. And yeah, I haven't heard any Native American express outrage over it. But that doesn't mean that I don't understand why it can be offensive.

I know, and that's why I responded to you about Native American voices that can be heard. I don't think you are one that has completely dismissed the issue, just that it's understandable that you haven't heard anything b/c the voices can't be heard...but that it's a mistake to think they aren't there.

..and sure, jokes are jokes, but they still mock the issue a bit. I'm not mad at them, but they still have a purpose.

Basically, there are two different conversations going on. One about what we are talking about and another about the "everyone can't be pleased" argument.

[StreetMedic]

While there's certainly no need to go around needlessly running roughshod over people's feelings, there are way too many folks who'd be well served to grow themselves a bit thicker skin.

I can't imagine going through life playing wounded-dove, empowering others to make me feel bad.

Guess I'm funny like that, though.

[KowboyKoop]

While there's certainly no need to go around needlessly running roughshod over people's feelings, there are way too many folks who'd be well served to grow themselves a bit thicker skin.

I can't imagine going through life playing wounded-dove, empowering others to make me feel bad.

Guess I'm funny like that, though.

I agree that a lot of people shouldn't be so sensitive...but would you put Native Americans in that group regarding issues such as this?

[Ninetyfourgoali]

...and if there was a team called the "Atlanta N***ers," I bet my life 98% of this board would be against it and would agree that it should be changed. There is not much difference between that term and what it means to black people and the term "redskin" and what it means to a lot of Native Americans. It's not as severe, but it's still a demeaning term.

canuck is a demeaning term towards Canadians.

[etothep]

canuck is a demeaning term towards Canadians.

I was not aware that Canadians have feelings.

[Arctic Blast]

I was not aware that Canadians have feelings.

Oh, we don't...we're automatons bent on world domination.

[Jeffy25]

THAT'S WHY CANADA IS OVER TAKING THE GLOBE! that's it! gosh, i was wondering why ;)

[Arctic Blast]

THAT'S WHY CANADA IS OVER TAKING THE GLOBE! that's it! gosh, i was wondering why ;)

We distract you all with our amusing use of 'eh' and our maple syrup while we plot.

I mean, look how cute little seals are. What do we do with them? Beat them to death with bats!

Now what would we do to other people?!

[Jeffy25]

(shivering in corner, looking toward the northern skies)

j....j.....j.....j....j....just leave us alone you crazy Canucks!





































































;)

[OregonDuck1989]

Nothing to be scared of Jeffy. Just buy a bucket of hockey pucks. Canadians natural instinct is to follow a tossed hockey puck.

[SirKodiak]

http://www.collegefootballhistory.com/notre_dame/fighting_irish.gif

[SirKodiak]

http://www.sportslogos.net/images/logos/53/88/full/1339.gifhttp://www.sportslogos.net/images/logos/53/992/full/1380.gif

[Jeffy25]

cool blank post bro!