Second-grader suspended over drawing of Jesus

[StreetMedic]

Figured this'd be right up this board's alley. :D

Taunton second-grader suspended over drawing of Jesus (http://www.tauntongazette.com/news/x1903566059/Taunton-second-grader-suspended-over-drawing-of-Jesus)


The student drew the picture shortly after taking a family trip to see the Christmas display at the National Shrine of Our Lady of La Salette, a Christian retreat site in Attleboro. He made the drawing in class after his teacher asked the children to sketch something that reminded them of Christmas, the father said.

“I think what happened is that because he put Xs in the eyes of Jesus, the teacher was alarmed and they told the parents they thought it was violent,” said Toni Saunders, an educational consultant with the Associated Advocacy Center.

WTM? :rolleyes:

[haveacigar]

I'm starting to believe that a large percentage of teachers are people who either couldn't figure out anything else to do with their college degree, or people who couldn't cut it doing anything else.

I'm not suggesting that all teachers are failures, but it's really starting to look like a catch-all profession for substandard college graduates.

Of course, I readily admit that that is a generalization of mine with no statistical or factual backing, so, take it for what it's worth.

A more pressing question I have, do they ride these things to school every day?

http://mydisguises.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/star-wars-tauntaun.jpg

[rschusta24]

All I gotta say, is that it is Massachusetts. The seperation of religion and education was pretty strict about 20 ish years ago when I was in elementary school. We were unable to sing any kind of holiday or religious songs. Also in High School, a boy I knew wanted to decorate a locker area with lights for the holidays and he was to take it down because it supported religious beliefs in school. I was in a major culture shock when I came to Virginia and people were yelling out Merry Christmas in a "Christmas" parade. Back in Massachusetts, they were called holiday parades and people said "Happy Holidays". Also in my work place in college, our boss told us to only say Happy Holiday to customers because people would get really pissed or upset if you said Merry Christmas. People would sometimes get into arguments over it. It is all pretty obsurd but all I can say is that it is Massachusetts and if you grew up with it, it would only make sense that the punishments have probably gotten worse in school systems now.

[haveacigar]

It was over the drawing being perceived as violent, not because it was religious.

[rschusta24]

Well sometimes all I read is the thread title because it is usually supposed to tell what the thread is about. My bad.

[acetoolguy]

Teachers feel they have to over react now because they seem to catch blame when things go wrong later. Teachers were asked after Columbine why they did report the shooters 'strange' behavior.
So on the one hand they get critized for surpressing indiviguality, but are supposed to respond if anybody acts outside the box.

However.....a second grader?

[rschusta24]

Teachers feel they have to over react now because they seem to catch blame when things go wrong later. Teachers were asked after Columbine why they did report the shooters 'strange' behavior.
So on the one hand they get critized for surpressing indiviguality, but are supposed to respond if anybody acts outside the box.

However.....a second grader?

Just playing devils advocate, but there has be rare events when kids that young have killed. I would give examples but that would require a lot of digging around. I remember years ago of a elementary school student bringing in a gun and killing teachers and student. My guess is this was about 10 years ago maybe.

[BYOP]

Burn that 2nd grader, damn heretic :D

[StreetMedic]

Well sometimes all I read is the thread title because it is usually supposed to tell what the thread is about. My bad.

"Second-grader suspended over drawing of Jesus" is not what the thread's about? OK... ;)

Besides, they're saying it was about violence, but I suspect rschusta24's remarks are a lot closer to what's really going on here.


Also in my work place in college, our boss told us to only say Happy Holiday to customers because people would get really pissed or upset if you said Merry Christmas. People would sometimes get into arguments over it.

Experienced that, too. Honestly, who gets p!ssed if someone says Merry Christmas, anyway? Why not just smile and move on? Must everything be a call to arms? If someone said Happy Chanukah to me (and I'm not Jewish), because that's how they wish someone well around the holidays, I don't even think it would occur to me to get angry. Really? :confused: I may as well get p!ssed the next time a cashier says "good morning" when it's really twenty past noon, for all the harm that's intended. :rolleyes:

[TheNamelessPoet]

I get pissed when people say "have a blessed day" or "bless you" when i dont sneeze but im not going to get all uppity when someone sas it liek the teacher did

[yomamaimontv]

Now imagine if the kid was drawing Allah instead. Imagine the uproar if he got suspended. It never amazes me the double standard that exists between Christianity and other religions such as Islam. You have to allow them to practice their religion wherever or whenever they want or your labeled a racist or worse. Yet as a Christian, I say Merry Christmas or put up the ten commandments somewhere and next thing you know your getting fired or sued.

[TheNamelessPoet]

Yet as a Christian, I say Merry Christmas or put up the ten commandments somewhere and next thing you know your getting fired or sued.
I sent an email to my coworkers on my team (about 10-15 and my supervisor and her assistant) stating I dont believe in the political correct balogna of "Happy hollidays" so if you do not celebrate Christmas, reply to this email and I will wish you a Happy Hanauka (didnt even try on spelling. sorry to my jewish friends) or Kwanza or whatever you celebrate.

Everyone got a laugh about it lol.

[FloydtheBarber]

Ridiculous. How are X's violent? He is in 2nd Grade. This is BS. And Massachusetts is pretty BS about this type of thing... But I have to disagree... When i was in elementry school, we had to say happy holidays and such. But recently MA has become more conservative, and I have seen many high school teachers make open religious praises and wave their beliefs around. (Which is stupid because they in turn don't like to let me believe what I want... But I am leaving this school partially for that reason, so alas it is other with).

[filihok]

If people want to argue about Merry Christmas vs Happy Holidays etc we can go there.

The story is nothing about that though.

The father probably overreacted. The school probably overreacted.


This is not the first time in recent years that a Taunton student has been sent home over a drawing. In June 2008, a fifth-grade student was suspended from Mulcahey Middle School for a day after creating a stick figure drawing that appeared to depict him shooting his teacher and a classmate.

The lawyers definitely would have overreacted if the one in a million chance that this kid goes on to kill someone at school occurred.

The teacher was most likely only following the letter of the school's regulations regarding 'violent drawings'.

[StreetMedic]

But recently MA has become more conservative

More conservative?! Compared to what?! Have you heard of Cambridge, or Provincetown, or Northampton? :p


they in turn don't like to let me believe what I want

How has this manifested itself? What is it they're not letting you believe?

[StreetMedic]

If people want to argue about Merry Christmas vs Happy Holidays etc we can go there.

The story is nothing about that though.

The father probably overreacted. The school probably overreacted.

Which still speaks to the point, tho', Fili, no? So much emotion has been injected into any discussion or incident like this that any cooler head has a very rough go of prevailing.

I often think I'm one of the only people who don't get torqued up over this stuff.

I always felt there were a couple types of "non-religious" people. There are anti-religious people, who actively object to organized religion, and then there're the folks like me: The "Dude, whatever"s. :D Maybe I've been wrong about that, all along, tho'.

Dude, whatever.

[DiceDig]

P.S.- For a second grader, he's a pretty terrible artist.
I was going all out with colors and scenery as a kindergartener.

Of course all I knew how to draw was Super Mario and TMNT.

[rschusta24]

More conservative?! Compared to what?! Have you heard of Cambridge, or Provincetown, or Northampton? :p


OH MAN! Northampton is nuts! hahaha. Good point. On another note. It is lesbian city in that area, hahaha.

[FloydtheBarber]

More conservative?! Compared to what?! Have you heard of Cambridge, or Provincetown, or Northampton? :p Not the state as a whole lol, parts are very VERY liberal, especially the towns you listed. But most of MA is not. I live in the very stupidly conservative town of Ashland. I go to school in Framingham (Or did). Both are far from liberal. Most of the towns here are not liberal at all, specially in my part of the state.. (Though the west part of the state is even worse.)




How has this manifested itself? What is it they're not letting you believe?

The school were really pissy about my not standing for the pledge, so every single morning I would have to go into ANOTHER room by myself so no one else could see me not standing. WHAT THE ****. And that was after a several day dispute in which they made me late for or miss classes SEVERAL TIMES...

[dps]

The school were really pissy about my not standing for the pledge, so every single morning I would have to go into ANOTHER room by myself so no one else could see me not standing. WHAT THE ****. And that was after a several day dispute in which they made me late for or miss classes SEVERAL TIMES...

What pledge? :confused:

[FloydtheBarber]

What pledge? :confused:

Pledge of Allegiance

[filihok]

every single morning I would have to go into ANOTHER room by myself so no one else could see me not standing. WHAT THE ****.

Really? I would have made a HUGE stink about this

[yomamaimontv]

I pledge allegiance to the flag, Micheal Jackson is a ***, Pepsi Cola burned him up, now he switched to 7-up.

[FloydtheBarber]

I pledge allegiance to the flag, Micheal Jackson is a ***, Pepsi Cola burned him up, now he switched to 7-up.

What?

[yomamaimontv]

What?

When I was a kid thats what we would say to be smart asses. when we had to do the Pledge.

[dps]

Pledge of Allegiance

WTF? The US Supreme Court banned compulsory recital of the Pledge of Allegiance in classrooms back in the 40's. I know that lots of place they kept doing it well after that if no-one locally objected, but even when I was in school back in the 60's and 70's we didn't do it--and I was in an area that is very conservative socially.

[FloydtheBarber]

Really? I would have made a HUGE stink about this

I did.. And now i am leaving that school partially because they refused to budge any further, and because the ****ing school, wich is a PUBLIC school, said it could not support my chronic condition (Fibro myalgia and a myriad of other things..), and because I think I have found a much better option of schooling

[yomamaimontv]

WTF? The US Supreme Court banned compulsory recital of the Pledge of Allegiance in classrooms back in the 40's. I know that lots of place they kept doing it well after that if no-one locally objected, but even when I was in school back in the 60's and 70's we didn't do it--and I was in an area that is very conservative socially.

I remember doing it in grade school everyday in the 80's, but when I got Middle School. We didn't do it anymore.

[FloydtheBarber]

WTF? The US Supreme Court banned compulsory recital of the Pledge of Allegiance in classrooms back in the 40's. I know that lots of place they kept doing it well after that if no-one locally objected, but even when I was in school back in the 60's and 70's we didn't do it--and I was in an area that is very conservative socially.

Well, they obviously did not get the memo. in the end when i won out, i did not have to do it, but they still made me go into a seperate room, further from my classes... Which I heavily objected to. The whole situation was ridiculous. I was very disappointed, because on the outside this school seemed more liberal and tolerant, then I got in and it was quite the opposite. The English teacher, for example,made us write about "God given talents " as a part of an essay... (Which I never ended up doing because I have been really sick). But I mean, seriously... they said i should do the Pledge out of respect to my country (which I dislike) and out of respect for the staff and students (How does this show them respect?). And they obviously are uncapable of showing respect for my beliefs, or lack thereof, as shown by this scenario. Yeah, great school "We tolerate everyone except those who disagree". Woo...

[rschusta24]

Not the state as a whole lol, parts are very VERY liberal, especially the towns you listed. But most of MA is not. I live in the very stupidly conservative town of Ashland. I go to school in Framingham (Or did). Both are far from liberal. Most of the towns here are not liberal at all, specially in my part of the state.. (Though the west part of the state is even worse.)


I would agree with you somewhat. I know that a good portion of the northeast coast of Massachusetts was pretty conservative but our systems were mostly run by liberals. But I think what makes Massachusetts so liberal is basically the whole west side, basically outside of RT. 495 maybe.

[metsguy234]

Well, they obviously did not get the memo. in the end when i won out, i did not have to do it, but they still made me go into a seperate room, further from my classes... Which I heavily objected to. The whole situation was ridiculous. I was very disappointed, because on the outside this school seemed more liberal and tolerant, then I got in and it was quite the opposite. The English teacher, for example,made us write about "God given talents " as a part of an essay... (Which I never ended up doing because I have been really sick). But I mean, seriously... they said i should do the Pledge out of respect to my country (which I dislike) and out of respect for the staff and students (How does this show them respect?). And they obviously are uncapable of showing respect for my beliefs, or lack thereof, as shown by this scenario. Yeah, great school "We tolerate everyone except those who disagree". Woo...

You should have respect towards your country as long as you live here. That means standing and saying the pledge. You try to be "edgy" and nonconformist by sitting down during the pledge, and then you act like a little b!tch when they call you out for it.

[acetoolguy]

As in most state's the city dwellers are more liberal than those that live in the 'burbs. So Boston, with its population, influences its policies more than it's geograpical size would indicate. Its the same in PA, Philly and Pittsburg make it a Democratic state in national elections but outside of the cities its a very different story.
And I don't know how many others states FTB has lived in but calling MA anything other then liberal is just not correct. It may just a matter of degree, the most conservative person in Ashland would be at best a moderate south of New Jersey.


............. Ashland ..... State
McCain/Palin 3,181.... 1,104,003
Obama/Biden 5,039.... 1,885,922

Your towns conservative voting results last election

[haveacigar]

You should have respect towards your country as long as you live here. That means standing and saying the pledge. You try to be "edgy" and nonconformist by sitting down during the pledge, and then you act like a little b!tch when they call you out for it.

You should have respect for opposing viewpoints as long as you live in the US, dumbass.

[FloydtheBarber]

As in most state's the city dwellers are more liberal than those that live in the 'burbs. So Boston, with its population, influences its policies more than it's geograpical size would indicate. Its the same in PA, Philly and Pittsburg make it a Democratic state in national elections but outside of the cities its a very different story.
And I don't know how many others states FTB has lived in but calling MA anything other then liberal is just not correct. It may just a matter of degree, the most conservative person in Ashland would be at best a moderate south of New Jersey.


............. Ashland ..... State
McCain/Palin 3,181.... 1,104,003
Obama/Biden 5,039.... 1,885,922

Your towns conservative voting results last election

I consider Democats conservatives :p

[free2131]

Now imagine if the kid was drawing Allah instead. Imagine the uproar if he got suspended. It never amazes me the double standard that exists between Christianity and other religions such as Islam. You have to allow them to practice their religion wherever or whenever they want or your labeled a racist or worse. Yet as a Christian, I say Merry Christmas or put up the ten commandments somewhere and next thing you know your getting fired or sued.

First of all, this had nothing to do with a picture of Jesus in the religious sense, only the violence of him being dead, illustrated by the X's.

Secondly, yes, you would probably be sued or fired by putting up a ten commandments in a tax payer funded building or property, or preaching about Christianity in a public school (as an authority figure like a teacher), because we like to keep religious beliefs out of the public domain and keep it in the personal one. I fully support these efforts, as I would hope most people who love the freedoms we have in this county would.

[haveacigar]

You know, it's real easy to play the "Well if Muslims did this and this, then people would support them, so there's a double standard," when Muslims aren't actually doing these things. "Why are we being held to this theoretical double standard!!"

[acetoolguy]

I consider Democats conservatives :p

Pretty tough for anybody to have a conversation with you if your going to make up your own definintions.....

[RickD]

I'm starting to believe that a large percentage of teachers are people who either couldn't figure out anything else to do with their college degree, or people who couldn't cut it doing anything else.

I'm not suggesting that all teachers are failures, but it's really starting to look like a catch-all profession for substandard college graduates.

Of course, I readily admit that that is a generalization of mine with no statistical or factual backing, so, take it for what it's worth.

A more pressing question I have, do they ride these things to school every day?

http://mydisguises.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/star-wars-tauntaun.jpg

ROFL Haveacigar for the win!

[RickD]

It was over the drawing being perceived as violent, not because it was religious.

Yeah, crucifixions are a real part of history! In future years the child could be suspended for drawing pics of the civil war, Lincolns assassination etc!

[Red Sox Fan 734]

Really...for drawing x's on his eyes????? Teacher fail

[metsguy234]

I consider Democats conservatives :p

I consider socialists to be brain-dead. :p

[haveacigar]

Yeah, crucifixions are a real part of history! In future years the child could be suspended for drawing pics of the civil war, Lincolns assassination etc!

Well it's not like the kid pulled some scene out of the Passion of the Christ. He drew the central object of worship of Christmastime, which is visible in hundreds of places, when asked to draw something that reminded him of Christmas. As far as the Xs in his eyes, just about every cartoon I can remember represents a dead person that way.

It's the kind of crude representation I would expect from a 2nd grader. To argue that it suggests violent tendencies is such a complete reach in logic, I can't help but question the intelligence of the administrators.

Now, if the violence angle is just cover, and it's actually about religion, that makes this even worse.

[FloydtheBarber]

Pretty tough for anybody to have a conversation with you if your going to make up your own definintions.....

No, because in reality the Democrat party is very similar to the Republican party, and compared to liberal parties in other countries both are very conservative.

[acetoolguy]

No, because in reality the Democrat party is very similar to the Republican party, and compared to liberal parties in other countries both are very conservative.

Oh..we talking international now? sorry, I don't play the 'change the topic in the middle of a discussion' game.

[Josh123123123]

Thats Harsh

[free2131]

Thats Harsh

I hope you burn in Hell!

[free2131]

I hope you burn in Hell!

That was uncalled for. I apologize.

[rschusta24]

I hope you burn in Hell!

Hahaha, when I read that quick comment it reminded me of a turrets attack.

[FloydtheBarber]

I accept your apology and you, sir, are a great humanitarian.

Will you marry me?

[dickay]

First of all, this had nothing to do with a picture of Jesus in the religious sense, only the violence of him being dead, illustrated by the X's.

Secondly, yes, you would probably be sued or fired by putting up a ten commandments in a tax payer funded building or property, or preaching about Christianity in a public school (as an authority figure like a teacher), because we like to keep religious beliefs out of the public domain and keep it in the personal one. I fully support these efforts, as I would hope most people who love the freedoms we have in this county would.

he brings up a good point though. Look at the recent thread we had in here about someone from home depot fired for wearing a pin of a cross on their apron. Now I support Home Depots ability to fire that person, HOWEVER, there is a double standard. If it were a pin with a religious symbol of another faith, or a pin of say Martin Luther King..etc. and Home Depot fired them, IMO there would be an uproar calling them a racist company, or one thats insensitive and unaccepting of religions other than christianity. I beleive thats his point, and I agree.

[kenny1234]

he brings up a good point though. Look at the recent thread we had in here about someone from home depot fired for wearing a pin of a cross on their apron. Now I support Home Depots ability to fire that person, HOWEVER, there is a double standard. If it were a pin with a religious symbol of another faith, or a pin of say Martin Luther King..etc. and Home Depot fired them, IMO there would be an uproar calling them a racist company, or one thats insensitive and unaccepting of religions other than christianity. I beleive thats his point, and I agree.
Can you point to any situation where this actually happened with any other religion in the US? If not, there are two possibilities. Either no one ever gets in trouble for displaying other religious symbols, or the press only cares when those symbols are Christian. My bet is on the second option.

(There was a similar case in Canada in the fall involving a taxi driver displaying Jewish/Israeli symbols. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/how-a-cabbies-dashboard-sparked-a-court-battle/article1296658/)

[dickay]

Can you point to any situation where this actually happened with any other religion in the US? If not, there are two possibilities. Either no one ever gets in trouble for displaying other religious symbols, or the press only cares when those symbols are Christian. My bet is on the second option.

(There was a similar case in Canada in the fall involving a taxi driver displaying Jewish/Israeli symbols. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/how-a-cabbies-dashboard-sparked-a-court-battle/article1296658/)

How bout this one;

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/24/nyregion/24sikh.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion

The army caved to outside pressures and allowed this man to wear his turban after a long standing rule against it.

[Alloutwar]

thank goodness he drew Jesus. That's only a suspension.

Drawing Mohammed gets you condemned to death. So, we're still way ahead.

[RickD]

thank goodness he drew Jesus. That's only a suspension.

Drawing Mohammed gets you condemned to death. So, we're still way ahead.

ROFL....sad but true....

[ragecage]

I finally feel compelled enough to respond to this thread.

I have a wild and crazy notion....

How about letting kids just be kids?

[acetoolguy]

I finally feel compelled enough to respond to this thread.

I have a wild and crazy notion....

How about letting kids just be kids?

Sure...look where that got us...:rolleyes:

[dps]

You should have respect for opposing viewpoints as long as you live in the US, dumbass.

Yeah, that "dumbass" at the end of your sentence sure conveys your respect for Metsguy opinion, now doesn't it.

In all seriousness, I think that it's important to show respect for people's right to have different opinions, but I don't think it's necessary to show respect for those opinions themselves; some opinions are just contemptuous.