My beef----trades

[jookster]

I've read all the rants about the farm system, and player consistency and yadda yadda yadda, but of all the beefs I've seen, I haven't seen the one that sticks in my crawl the most.....trading. Why is it so hard to pull off decent trades with anyone in this game?? I just recently upgraded my account to gold and of all the new leagues I joined, the majority of the teams were in pretty bad shape when I took over so I decided to rebuild from scratch. Well after 3-4 seasons of sucking, I finally start to get some nice prospects coming through my system and woudn't you know it here come all the ridiculous trade offers of aging 34-37 year old stiffs with lousy contracts for my top prospects. Or I'll offer someone an all-star calibar player, 2 mid to high range prospects and cash for a superstar and 1 minor leaguer I might need because I don't have any quality back ups or prospects at that position and get turned down 9 times out of 10 with no explanation why.

Anybody who has done a deal with me that I initiated will tell you that I offer fair deals that benefit both teams and NEVER try to rip anybody off so why is it that I can't seem to get most GMs to trade? Another thing that annoys me is what seems to be everyones fascination with "prospects". One post I saw made me laugh so hard I blew tomato soup out my nostrils. It was something along the lines of, "KC looking to trade prospects, want prospects in return". What the **** kind of sense does that make? I'm tired of bringing up my own prospects through my farm system so let me trade them all to someone else in exchange for their prospects. Wheeling and dealing with other GMs is 90% of the fun of this game to me but the majority of them don't seem to realize that if you want quality, you must be willing to part with quality. Unless you stumble on some hapless mofo who doesn't know any better that is just how it is. I'd be interested in hearing other peoples thoughts on this subject and I hope that this thread gets as many responses as some of the others I've seen. Thanks for reading......:D

[edeutsch77]

Us Moguler's like to trade, just need to find the right league.

[fpw7]

and the best league @ that...

SPORTSCENTURY 2...Just when you thought baseball couldn't get better...

http://www.oha96.com/sportscentury/sportscentury.html

[stealthdog666]

I think he does have a point. It is something I have noticed before. I wouldn't necessarily call it a "problem," but for some reason there are lots of GMs out there that think you should be very happy to take their aging former never-has-beens that make 60 points and give up your farm + 40 for him. Granted I am very difficult to trade with because I am waiting for the best offers possible. But the issue does exist. Is there any fix to it? No.

General guidelines I follow by:
1) Don't expect anything in return for players with very large contracts. In fact, you might need to move something with him to get rid of him.
2) Don't expect much in return for players in their contract years.
3) Pitching is always valuable. A good SP is worth more than a good field player.
4) Prospects are ok, but a perennial star is worth more than a package of 2-3 prospects because the prospects might not pan out.
5) Please don't offer me your .230 BA, .320 OBP, 60 point making "star," and ask for my top 2 prospects + 40 points. If you don't want him, why the **** would I?

[jokerswild]

My philosiphy on trading is this. Get to know all the GM's in your leagues really well. You can find out very quickly who will be easy to deal with and who won't. Most of the time when someone is trying to trade they are doing it for one of two reasons.

1) To get rid of payroll. Some of these guys do have value beyond their contract, but most I have found I wouldn't take even if you gave them to me. Give someone a fair prospect with them then maybe you will unload it.

2) Looking to fill a gap in the team. A great idea is to look through peoples teams and find someone that is on someones bench that can fill the spot you have. (This is sometimes easier said than done) These guys are a lot cheaper than someone a team "needs". Also this is where you look to GM's that you know are good to deal with to make a move.

Always ask if someone is trying to move a player you might be surprised who they are dealing. This is all in addition to what stealthdog said. (who is one of those guys who I will go to because we know we will be fair with each other).

[cavemanx]

What's wrong with trading prospects? Most of my trades over the years have been prospect deals. If I have three 1B coming through the system, but no LF...why not move a decent 21 year old 1B for a decent 23 year old LF?

The only thing I hate about trading is that a fair share of GMs don't want to mess with "fair" trading of mid-level prospects. Often when I make an offer that is very fair, I get the counter where the other guy wants my top prospect for two of his mediocre (or worse) prospects. Thankfully, not everyone adheres to this philosophy because mid-level prospects are where I make most of my deals.

[sevenseas]

Jookster,

Great Rant......I get many of the same type offers from a couple of teams. Trading is the best part....though I do regret rading your Dodgers 3B Bellgrade.

Stealth,

Outstanding 1st point.

[jokerswild]

I agree with you caveman, there have been several times where I have had 2 or 3 good prospects at one position. Moving one of them for a guy that another team has a lot of at a position makes a ton of sense. Anytime I have 2 good to great 3B prospects (3B is just and example) I look for a positive move that will be equal for both sides.

[jookster]

I have no problem trading excess minor leaguers at one position to a team who has a surplus at another.....but you don't see that too often. Personally I'd rather trade my excess prospects for an established player, not necessarily a superstar, but established that would help me immediatly. And of course I'm always willing to sweeten the pot if that player I want is exceptional.

[jookster]

Seveseas, although he was a nice cog in my championship machine, Bellgrade never really did much for me other than win the gold glove every year. His offensive numbers were good, but nothing to write home about. Who did I trade you in that deal again???

[steven0560]

I've made fair deals and had some Great negotiations with other GM's that resulted in a fair deal as well as ones that we just could come to terms.
The trading game is VERY fun when this takes place.
All too many GM's want lopsided deals in their favor. Many of them don't seem to recognize an equal deal that helps both sides.
I think repeated counter offers back and forth tend to equalize most deals as long as both GM's can be reasonable.

[nysteinbrenner]

Originally posted by stealthdog666
If you don't want him, why the **** would I?

I think this comment, standing alone, sums up why trading in BBMO has a frequency closer to that of the NFL than of MLB: owners have a perception that they're "losing" in a deal, and therefore don't trade.

Also, Jook is right in his assessment: I get offered trades on almost a daily basis that are so lopsided I literally laugh out loud. Unlike many owners though, if I have any interest at all in a deal (and admittedly, often I don't), be it for the players offered or anyone else on that club's roster, I tend to counter-offer, which is by and of itself a neat feature.

I highly recommend countering when appropriate, or, at minimum, giving something of an explanation why you shoot the deal down, even if it's a statement like "Are you high?" or something. :)

[Cipster]

I think a lot of times people are looking for sucker deals so they won't necessarily pull the trigger on a fair trade hoping to rip someone off in the near future.

I think if you know the GM's pretty well you will know who to trade with and what people's "reasonability" level is.

I think AIM is the best tool to do trades. It's much easier to understand what your fellow GM is after (sometimes they are after a sucker, sometimes they are merely looking at it differently than you).