Mogul Point Fairness

[dturkenk]

I remember someone asked a little while ago what the Mogul Points would have looked like in real-life for the 90s. Well, I was a little bored while watching the Yankee game (go Yankees) so I decided to figure it out.

Here's a list of teams and their total and average mogul points


TierTotal Mogul Points Average Mogul Points
Anaheim Angels 4 3500 583.33
Arizona Diamondbacks 2 1200 400.00
Atlanta Braves 1 5200 866.67
Baltimore Orioles 3 3700 616.67
Boston Red Sox 1 2150 358.33
Chicago Cubs 2 1625 270.83
Chicago White Sox 3 3800 633.33
Cincinnati Reds 4 4375 729.17
Cleveland Indians 1 3900 650.00
Colorado Rockies 2 1900 316.67
Detroit Tigers 3 1900 316.67
Florida Marlins 5 6750 1125.00
Houston Astros 3 4500 750.00
Kansas City Royals 5 3150 525.00
Los Angeles Dodgers 1 1900 316.67
Milwaukee Brewers 5 2850 475.00
Minnesota Twins 5 2100 350.00
Montreal Expos 5 3000 500.00
New York Mets 1 2550 425.00
New York Yankees 1 6800 1133.33
Oakland Athletics 4 3625 604.17
Philadelphia Phillies 4 2500 416.67
Pittsburgh Pirates 4 2250 375.00
San Diego Padres 4 5250 875.00
San Francisco Giants 3 3800 633.33
Seattle Mariners 2 3600 600.00
St. Louis Cardinals 2 2925 487.50
Tampa Bay Devil Rays 5 900 300.00
Texas Rangers 2 3125 520.83
Toronto Blue Jays 3 1900 316.67

Sorry about the formatting.... but anyway, what that breaks down to in total points is

Tier 1 Teams: 22500 - 4 World Series
Tier 2 Teams: 14375
Tier 3 Teams: 19600
Tier 4 Teams: 21500
Tier 5 Teams: 18750 - 1 World Series

The only tier that looks like it's gets the short end of the stick is Tier 2. Of course this is a small sample and it's possibly skewed by the fact that the Yankees won 4 of the 5 world series over this span

The biggest surprise in my mind was the performance of Tier 4 teams, but that's mostly due to San Diego making the series and winning the division in another year.

Well, here's the info... do with it what you will...

[Particleman]

I just noticed they put the Chicago Cubs as a Tier 2 team. Am I the only one who thinks they don't belong there? I mean their budget is miniscule. They may have a lot of talent to start the game, but what's the point if they can't afford to resign any of it. I think that talent has too great of an effect on the mogul Tiers.

On a side note, it is next to impossible for small markets to keep their level of young talent after the first couple of seasons. In this game, farm spending, it seems more than any other factor, dictates who gets the best talent (I know losses are supposed to impact rookie talent as well, but it doesn't seem to have as big an impact as big spending). Who spends the most on the development of young players in this game? Big markets. This of course is not always the case in real life but this is what happens in the game. After the first couple of seasons when the small markets lose all their talent to free agency and such, they are pretty much devoid of young talent, and they can't compete in farm spending (except of course saving up and increasing spending once every couple of years) the vast majority of the time. It seems the condition at the beginning of the game, where (the small markets) Oakland, Pittsburgh, Montreal, Chicago, and Minnesota are loaded with young talent, and the big markets with the established veterans, is impossible to recreate later in the game given the game's current financial system.

[BBM]

And as the games goes on, the fans loyalty changes, Atland may have 40000 fans a game and change to 20000 a game after 10 years, so does that mean they will still have to use tier 1 market team mogul points, that wouldn't be fair.

[muchomaas]

Well, under and earlier post entitled "player shifting", I brought up the number of endemic problems with the current idea of "minors" that could be solved by the splitting game into the MLB roster, the AAAA/40-man roster, and the Low Minors.

I feel that there should be a system more like the majors where a player with requisite experience (3 yrs in the majors) can refuse a minor league assignment. I hate the way you can stash useful Vets (esp. pitchers) in the minors, which is an option that's open and adivisable for high revenue teams.

I thought this would also help the computer's predilection to trade for and/or sign players that are of no use for it.

It would also make it so that you couldn't put a player from the low minors onto the major league club without displacing to the low minors someone from the 40 man roster (AAAA), i.e. a player w/less than 3 yrs. experience.

Where this is leading is that "Farm System" could only improve the prospects on your AAAA as opposed to your low minors. The Low Minors players would improve equally well, but those on the AAAA would improve depending on how much is spent on the "Farm System". Low Minors would be stocked with prospects in relation to a team's finish. By forcing teams to spend their farm system funds on their AAAA roster, you'd reduce the incentive to add extra Vets since these guys (presumably) wouldn't improve, and (like the majors) you would limit the development of your younger players. Meanwhile Small Market teams would have the advantage that their AAAA roster would be stocked with young up&comers not Veteran Spare Parts, and thus produce more useful young players (like the majors).

Otherwise, the point Particleman makes above is EXTREMELY applicable, and, I suspect, make it unpleasant to play small market teams in active leagues beyond 2015 (i.e. the first 10 weeks).

[Cipster]

I agree with Particleman. I play the Cubs in his league and my revenue was extremely small. I was saddled with some ridiculous contracts (Rondell White at 25 pts through 2007, Matt Stairs at 16/ pts through 2005 Bill Mueller at 18 pts through 2005). To top it off some key contracts were up so Bye, bye Julio Zuleta bye bye Kerry Wood and bye bye Sammy.
Sammy signed for 70+ pts elsewhere and proceeded to hit 78 homers, that was more than my entire lineup of scrubs could do but his salary was also half of my ticket sales....
I am finally turning a profit this year (barely) by putting my scouting and farm at 0 points and having a payroll of 210. I tried to spend on the farm but I was heading towards banckrupcy very quickly. Out of my last place finishes I got 2 good pitcher prospects.
I took them out of the minors right away and stuck them on the big league roster and they are both doing well.
I thought this year I might win but unfortunately nobody in my lineup can hit the ground if they fell so hey, maybe next year...

[kingsodom]

but that's pretty much the story of the Cubs every year. Their budget is not miniscule. It seems they over pay for free agents every year and get very little out of it.

The Cubs are definitely a tier 2 team in terms of their organizational spending. I couldn't find the numbers for their actual payroll, but I remember it being high. Maybe not the likes of NY, LA or BAL but pretty good amount.

Their organization set a record for Total K's by a pitching staff. (for what that's worth. I find it impressive as the old record was from the 1996 Braves.) So, at least they got something for the money.

Also, If anyone does have the actual payrolls for this season, it would be cool to see that information.

-K

[Particleman]

The Chicago Cubs revenue in both the NABL and the Mogul Enthusiasts League is around 265. That is not high. In the NABL they are even in Playoff contention. You can't count some public leagues where you can load your team with Star players every year and up your revenue 100+ pts. They may be a Tier two or three team in real life, but their revenue in the game does not reflect this.

[Slugger222]

I have not played the Cubs in MBOL, but it seems to me that the Cubs get drilled too hard in the attendance area.

Everyone knows that even if the Cubbies stink, they will draw fans to the ball park, and nearly fill the stands - sucn is the loyalty of the die hard Cubs fans.

And that definitely does not seem to be reflected in the game system.

[Slugger222]

TierTotal Mogul Points Average Mogul Points
Arranged by order of finish.


New York Yankees 1 6800 1133.33
Florida Marlins 5 6750 1125.00
San Diego Padres 4 5250 875.00
Atlanta Braves 1 5200 866.67
Cincinnati Reds 4 4375 729.17
Houston Astros 3 4500 750.00
Cleveland Indians 1 3900 650.00
San Francisco Giants 3 3800 633.33
Chicago White Sox 3 3800 633.33
Baltimore Orioles 3 3700 616.67
Oakland Athletics 4 3625 604.17
Seattle Mariners 2 3600 600.00
Anaheim Angels 4 3500 583.33
Kansas City Royals 5 3150 525.00
Texas Rangers 2 3125 520.83
Montreal Expos 5 3000 500.00
St. Louis Cardinals 2 2925 487.50
Milwaukee Brewers 5 2850 475.00
New York Mets 1 2550 425.00
Philadelphia Phillies 4 2500 416.67
Boston Red Sox 1 2150 358.33
Pittsburgh Pirates 4 2250 375.00
Minnesota Twins 5 2100 350.00
Los Angeles Dodgers 1 1900 316.67
Colorado Rockies 2 1900 316.67
Detroit Tigers 3 1900 316.67
Toronto Blue Jays 3 1900 316.67
Chicago Cubs 2 1625 270.83
Arizona Diamondbacks 2 1200 400.00
Tampa Bay Devil Rays 5 900 300.00


It is kind of surprising that NY wins by only 50 points, and Atlanta does no better than 4th, but other than that..... what are your thoughts?

[kingsodom]

that is true about the RL cubs fans, they show up for games no matter how good their team reallys is. If that is not being reflected then maybe they need to add the "A+++" rating for fan loyalty...