I know it is their right and all....

[thejimmyst91]

But can't everyone who doens't like this game just shut up and leave(or stay and shut up)? I am sick of people always flaming this company. This "company" from what I understnad is a guy and his family, plus a few close friends, who love baseball and are giving us an amazing amount of fun. I mean at 10 bucks a month I am getting massive amounts of enjoyment out of this.
Clay et all, I am here for the long run. Yall have a great product.

And as for all the bugs and stuff....why not just leav em in there and work on next years patch? I mean obviously when the system blows up you will have to fix it(stats loss/no sims)but screw all the petty ****.

And for next years version, don't do the amateur draft thing(it didnt work well in Football Mogul, and it would be like 6000000000 rounds in baseball) or convert to dollars. Just give us a more accurate stats base, like team ERA's from 3.50-5.50 not 4.5 to 8. Oh and fix the dropdown box on the expense page. That thing is rather annoying.

[williethebasset]

They are trying as hard as they can. Some people want instant gratification.

[Hash1]

One small thing i would like added is the option of viewing your teams players playoff stats. Itd be alot nicer to just be able to view your whole team instead of having to click on each player individualy. And Jimmy i LOVE this game and will be here till the end but money doesnt fall out of the sky, so its not like 10 dollars a month isnt nothing. This game is by far worth the money to me. I just hate seein the usual once a month stat bug and having to do like a days worths of sims over to get your old stats back. I think it is perfectly fine for someone to speak there mind about a product if they have paid for it(some hoping they can come back in the future and the product will be more stable). I like you jimmy would like to see them spend most there time on next years patch. But why charge now the games basically like playin a beta because of the bugs. You cant market a product with bugs like that.

[tward13]

Sorry, but when I pay for something I expect it to work properly. Or at least be explained when it doesn't work. If you're going to charge a fee, then it should work or there should be a disclaimer at sign-up saying "This is a Mom & Pop operation. Please expect regular errors and bugs. The Sim may or may not run and you may or may not get boxscores and stats."

[kaill]

No one is saying that you should pay your money and live with dissatisfaction, simply that you should either pay or leave. It's alright to try to make helpful suggestions, but Clay simply doesn't have time to respond to complaints. If he did, he'd have even less time to fix bugs and program.
If you really think they need to work more, then offer to work for them. For free. Because they can't afford to hire anyone else.

Jimmy, you rock.

[Cipster]

Originally posted by kaill
No one is saying that you should pay your money and live with dissatisfaction, simply that you should either pay or leave. It's alright to try to make helpful suggestions, but Clay simply doesn't have time to respond to complaints. If he did, he'd have even less time to fix bugs and program.
If you really think they need to work more, then offer to work for them. For free. Because they can't afford to hire anyone else.

Jimmy, you rock.

Offers for help are never answered. Try it sometimes. Not even a "no thank you" e-mail will be forthcoming.

[kaill]

Really? I offered in May or June to help fix the new rosters, made a few comments, and Clay wrote me a long response. I got busy and didn't have time to do it, but he was very friendly and professional.
He probably has even less time now, though.

[Cipster]

Originally posted by kaill
Really? I offered in May or June to help fix the new rosters, made a few comments, and Clay wrote me a long response. I got busy and didn't have time to do it, but he was very friendly and professional.
He probably has even less time now, though.

I offered to make a list of prospects for all 30 teams but I never heard anything back.

[willat]

I really find it funny when people write these posts which say something to the effect of "Don't complain, just shut up or leave".

I kind of wonder how you go about your daily lives, do you just accept everything because whoever delivered a product to you that could stand improvement was doing the best they could? The cable company must LOVE customers like you!

I'm sure you people that don't want complaints keep your mouths shut on political topics like the war in Iraq, right?

And the ironic thing about it is, I'm sure BBMOL wants to hear the complaints, so that they can work on improvements to make the game better for its customers. And please, don't say that every complaint has to be nice and gentle, that's not how it works. If you can't stand complaints, you shouldn't be in business.

[Hash1]

I encourage people to write complaints. BMO needs to realize that people have expectations with the game that need to be met. dont be nasty and rude about it though. Kail and jimmy do you enjoy all the bugs in this game and that there has been no improvements ??? just because i dont like them that doesnt mean i should shut up and leave. Dont say things like that to paying customers. If ur saying for people who speak there mind and dont like getting walked all over to leave than i doubt you care that much about bmo.... the last thing bmo needs is a loss of customers. I like the product and i dont want to leave but im not going to keep quiet while 10 bux a month goes to bmo. Even though clay doesnt have much help there is still no excuse for these bugs to keep happening. I think this game has been around for 3 years so there shouldnt be so many problems...As long as clay is getting 10 bux a month from me and others(some people 5 other people like 15!) than i say complain all u want, because while our money is going to bmo no improvements are happening... Kail u must be blessed if u got a response from clay... i know alot of people who tried to help and never got a response.... but thats understandable... clay doesnt have time to answer every1( a response saying thx would only take like 20 secs to do but still) Clay should check the boards like once a month and do his replys and statements than. Kail no offense man but u seem like the type who gets ripped off alot.... hey do you want to buy some ps2 games from me.... ill sell them to you full price but they are all sctratched up and they only work half the time. You seem to not mind paying for things that dont work all the time. :p

[kaill]

Well, I don't see a need to get personal. Am I getting ripped off? Bugs are one thing, new features are another. I was a BBMO customer before, left because I didn't have enough time for it, and now am back. I'm getting exactly what I'm paying for, have a full understanding of what I'm getting, and am willing to pay the price. If that's a rip-off, I like them and wish for more.

There will always be bugs in programs, especially dynamic ones like BBMO where every league is different. If you're a programmer and have found a code which a bug cannot creep into, I think you should start your own company and make millions.
New features are simply a matter of time, which, as I've said, Clay doesn't seem to have. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice, I'm saying that it's probably not going to happen. Suggestions are one thing, complaints are another.
And, willat, yes, I do intend to suggest that complaints should be polite. Not that they MUST be, simply that I find it annoying when they are not. Just as it's your right to be as gentle or harsh as you choose, it's also my right to be annoyed by your tone.

[kaill]

I'm not saying the product couldn't be improved, simply that you should ask yourself what you're trying to accomplish with your complaints. We've established that Clay does not have time to deal with these things. Whether he SHOULD or not is another question. Since I know that willat at least has been playing mogul for quite some time, what benefit have you reaped from complaining? If there has been a benefit, tell me what it is. If there hasn't, why are you still doing it? Just to "make your voice heard", so that you're not a robot blindly following the party line?

See, you're not the only one who can be snarky and superior...

[Hash1]

Originally posted by kaill
I'm not saying the product couldn't be improved, simply that you should ask yourself what you're trying to accomplish with your complaints. We've established that Clay does not have time to deal with these things. Whether he SHOULD or not is another question. Since I know that willat at least has been playing mogul for quite some time, what benefit have you reaped from complaining? If there has been a benefit, tell me what it is. If there hasn't, why are you still doing it? Just to "make your voice heard", so that you're not a robot blindly following the party line?

See, you're not the only one who can be snarky and superior...

im not the one making the complaints usually.... i was just sayin dont say "shut up or leave". If it became free until they fixed things than i would agree there. but as long as things are messed up and people are paying than they should say something. What has it accomplished so far??? nothing... other than when clay reads peoples "complaints" he will know that people expect a better product if there paying and will not just sit back and have keep paying for a bug infested product forever. Really not enough people complain. I say the more the better... Has there been a benifit you ask??? well no but at least i spoke my mind like any disatisfied customer should do. Its a business Kail.... If they cant handle complaints than i dont what there doing... im sure they can handle it... i know they realize people are unhappy.They dont need people stickin up for them and tellin other people not to speak there mind. I have a question... If you bought a DVD and when you got home the DVD was all scratched and still worked but messed up alot during the movie and u had to skip some scenes would you

A) watch the movie anyway and not call the store or anything.

B) Call the store and say "hey i think the dvd i got was messed
up but its ok i dont mind paying for things that i like that dont work to well but i just wanted to let you know im dissapointed in your company".

C) say " im never going back to that store again" and just give up on that company or get ur $ back

Compared to BMO i fall under B but in rl id get my $ back lol... If you had to pay and the product doesnt fully work than why not say it so they can fix the problem??? Kail im not tryin to be a jerk to you. Im glad you care alot about bmo like me. Im also not tryin to be a jerk to clay either. im just doing like any disatisfied customer should do.

[kaill]

Hash - I know you're not trying to be a jerk. I suppose I disagree on your example in two ways. First, as I've said, any program is bound to have bugs creep in. A complicated one like BBMO, with many different permutations (different leagues), is bound to have even more creep in. These are natural. The only issue is how quickly Clay and co. fix these bugs - I think they do so fast enough, others disagree. That is a matter of opinion, I believe.
As to new features, I simply don't need these - I'm happy with the game. Others who want new features and yell when they don't get them are the ones I'm mostly aiming my "suck it up or leave" comments at. If you don't like the game, you should leave. Anyone who signed up for BBMO and said "I don't like the way it is, but I'm sure it will get better" really IS a sucker. New features are nice, but not essential, because Clay doesn't have an R&D team working for him.

Finally, I suppose I'm just saying that I hold a mom & pop company like sportsmogul to a different standard than I would a company like Electronic Arts or Microsoft. I would rather Clay's time be spent on bug fixing and new editions of the game than complaints and nitpicking. Large companies don't have to make that choice because they have people assigned to those jobs.

[Hash1]

I dont care to much for improvements either... The only thing that bothers me is the bugs. for ex Merger league never got there stats back. We lost stats and waited for like 5-6 days for clay to fix it. Now were just stuck without old stats. I understand that clay or ian was probally busy with the holidays though... My question is... now that were being charged for an unstable product is our money going to "encourage" them to fix things. If they cant figure out the stat bug problem than maybe someone else could for them

No hard fealings kail?

[kaill]

Certainly, no hard feelings.
We just seem to disagree on what our expectations should be from this product, which isn't something that can be resolved. I have no problem with complaints/comments phrased in a constructive way, it's the repeated "SPORTS MO GUL SUCKS AND NE ONE WHO PAYS FOR THIS GAMEIS A RETERD ALL YU GUYS ARE STUIPIIDS" stuff that gets to me.

[Hash1]

i totally agree. People like that are morons... they will never get there point across by doing that. Kail answer this though.... you say you have different expectactions than me, but dont you think a product thats costs people 5, 10, or 15 dollars per month and that has been out for 3 years should be more stable than this?

[Hash1]

btw welcome to the cml...if ever want to talk trades IM me on AIM.. my aim is Hash467.. I am Minnesota in cml

cml2 should be alot of fun :D

[kaill]

*sigh* everyone in BMO is on AIM... I hate that stupid program. I guess I have to get it though.

CML2 will be great... I'm just tuning up for it now.

[Hash1]

you should get trillian

[jokerswild]

I want to first say that I really respect this debate. I would like to add one thing to this though. Hash you say that if you buy a CD and it is broken what would you do? I think this is a unfair comparison as there are very few factors in what happened to the CD (actually in anything retail). If you make the comparison to a restaurant though were many thing could have happened and all things could be one or more things that could have happened.

Lets say you go into McDonalds and order something once a week (I know this is a lot, but for arguments sake). You know that there is a chance that you aren't going to get everything you ordered in your bag and you do (as I always do) drive off without checking it. So once every 2 months you are missing a cheeseburger and you call up and say what is going on, I didn't get my cheeseburger? The responce is always would you like to come in and get it or should I take down your name? I agree it is irritating, but you know that people make mistakes (although McDonalds seems to make way to many). Yet you still come back, why? Because the price that they offer is less than their competitors and it doesn't happen THAT often. Now the CC situation was like the mouse running across your food, there is no good explaination for it, all you can do is beg and fix it. (which I believe they did and compensated by giving a ton of free time.)

I will definately agree with you on many things, like them seeming to take forever to get to things, but they both do have jobs which does not allow them to be around a lot. But when there is a problem they are on it. I know because I have stayed up all night while they were working on getting things taken care of fielding 20-30 questions a hour while they hammered something out.

They do want your oppinion on how to improve the product, and believe me they don't want crud like this to happen, but it is going to. Not a single online game doesn't have downtime each month. The difference is they have the resorces to afford people to watch it at all times. Please continue to give your opinons Clay does read them (maybe not today, but sometime).

Thanks

jokerswild

P.S. a nice message is more likely to be kept. :)

[Hash1]

Originally posted by jokerswild
I want to first say that I really respect this debate. I would like to add one thing to this though. Hash you say that if you buy a CD and it is broken what would you do? I think this is a unfair comparison as there are very few factors in what happened to the CD (actually in anything retail). If you make the comparison to a restaurant though were many thing could have happened and all things could be one or more things that could have happened.

Lets say you go into McDonalds and order something once a week (I know this is a lot, but for arguments sake). You know that there is a chance that you aren't going to get everything you ordered in your bag and you do (as I always do) drive off without checking it. So once every 2 months you are missing a cheeseburger and you call up and say what is going on, I didn't get my cheeseburger? The responce is always would you like to come in and get it or should I take down your name? I agree it is irritating, but you know that people make mistakes (although McDonalds seems to make way to many). Yet you still come back, why? Because the price that they offer is less than their competitors and it doesn't happen THAT often. Now the CC situation was like the mouse running across your food, there is no good explaination for it, all you can do is beg and fix it. (which I believe they did and compensated by giving a ton of free time.)

I will definately agree with you on many things, like them seeming to take forever to get to things, but they both do have jobs which does not allow them to be around a lot. But when there is a problem they are on it. I know because I have stayed up all night while they were working on getting things taken care of fielding 20-30 questions a hour while they hammered something out.

They do want your oppinion on how to improve the product, and believe me they don't want crud like this to happen, but it is going to. Not a single online game doesn't have downtime each month. The difference is they have the resorces to afford people to watch it at all times. Please continue to give your opinons Clay does read them (maybe not today, but sometime).

Thanks

jokerswild

P.S. a nice message is more likely to be kept. :)


I wasnt trying to be rude at all... im simply saying for people not to say "shut up or leave" i like to see people speak there mind because it shows that they care about the game enough to even bother. If there gonna market a product and it doesnt fully work they are going to get complaints... thats just how it is... The reason im still here is because bmo is a GREAT product and quite addicting. lol and yea my cd comparision was not a good one at all but at Mcdonalds if you "have a cheese burger thats wrong" and you tell them about it you get a response at least... for ex a league called merger league waited 8 days for there stats to get reset and emails had been sent to clay and ian and nothin was done... finally we just gave up on the stats...not even a "im sorry you dont get to have your old stats back.... i was busy and couldnt do it" response from clay or ian.... even though other leagues got there stats so i guess they missed it. I know they both have jobs but if there gonna market a product and charge people 5,10,15 dollars a month than they need to work in more time for bmo.

[Craigrrs]

The issue is really getting a response. I really believe people would be more patient about getting something fixed if they knew for a fact that it was being worked on. Or at least that Clay or Ian knew about the problem. How long does it take to make a post saying, "We know about the problem and it should be fixed by 9:00pm tonight." It probably takes all of 2 minutes to post something like that. At least then people know they are not being ignored.

Your McDonald's example, even tho I have never tried to call as you say that you can, when you do call you at least get an answer. The phone doesn't just keep ringing and ringing, which is pretty much what happens here... problems that are aren't at least acknowledged are phones that just keep ringing and ringing, until the person just gives up and hangs up the phone (quits).

[jokerswild]

No Hash, I didn't think you were being rude at all. And Craig I see your point, I am more than happy to get into touch with someone for people, but sometimes I can't even find them :) definately understand the frustration, just sometimes SOME people are overly critical and not patient at all. (I am not even speaking of anyone in this thread.)