BBM 2005 receives 5.6 from Gamespot

[GM24]

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sports/baseballmogul2005/review.html

...It's unfair.

This was brought to my attention in the OOTP boards by a person who was clever enough to call himself streetballer. I did something not many people do and read the review, and then I read the OOTP6 review. I was astonished to see that Baseball Mogul has been set at a much higher standard than OOTP6, to the point that it is unfair. The man that reviewed the game, Brett Todd, had not one positive thing to say about the game but did not mention any way that it could be improved. Also, he did not acknowledge the inclusion of a minor league draft, which is a very apparent inclusion. Which leads me to the conclusion that Todd may have not played the game. He blew off the game in his review, giving it a very amateur treatment. I talked about the inequities of this in the OOTP thread, specifically here:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/showthread.php?p=775765#post775765

[TwinswillWin]

That guy had almost nothing good to say about the game. Somethings I agree with but he bashes it too much and over-exarrates the rest.(Sorry I don't spell well :D)

[egswanso]

Originally posted by Crispy984
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sports/baseballmogul2005/review.html

...It's unfair.

This was brought to my attention in the OOTP boards by a person who was clever enough to call himself streetballer. I did something not many people do and read the review, and then I read the OOTP6 review. I was astonished to see that Baseball Mogul has been set at a much higher standard than OOTP6, to the point that it is unfair. The man that reviewed the game, Brett Todd, had not one positive thing to say about the game but did not mention any way that it could be improved. Also, he did not acknowledge the inclusion of a minor league draft, which is a very apparent inclusion. Which leads me to the conclusion that Todd may have not played the game. He blew off the game in his review, giving it a very amateur treatment. I talked about the inequities of this in the OOTP thread, specifically here:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/showthread.php?p=775765#post775765

it sounded to me like he played the demo only, and version 7.00 at that. some of his comments were true, but have already been addressed via patches. But it seems clear the reviewer just prefers OOTP to BM, which makes him a poor person to do both reviews, as the two products are very different in their objectives, thus a base comparision of 'OOTP has more features' isn't really illuminating.

I still dont like OOTP's setup. I cant get by that to play it. So i have my own biases, but then again, i'm not reviewing the game on an influential web-site...

[Wahman]

You people are upset at this you should check out the review given in the July issue of PcGamer of this years baseball mogul. It received a mid to high 60's (0-100 scale). They said that they were long time supporters (having reveiwed 2002 and giving it a high score;89%, then 2003; 81%), but that they no longer supported it. There was one huge problem, they said that it only had updated 2003 rosters, Oh and the biggest one...the screenshots...they were of BBM04!!! Yep, the reviewed last years game and called it BBM05!!! I emailed the editor pointing this out and nothing. Check out the issue then write the editor and/or check out the PcGamer online forums where I point this huge mistake out and leave a post. Those of you that have been here much longer than I have should, especially check this out.
Check out http://forums.delphiforums.com/pcgonline/messages
under general gaming

[Steiny]

Guys,

Having recently DL'ed the demo, and having bought every other version of the game made to date, I can actually say a 5.6 is probably pretty fair.

2K5 has just a shade more features than 2K4, which had a shade more to offer than 2K3, and so on, and so on, and so on. To put it gently, BBM is tired and living on past glories; a huge upgrade, rather than bits and pieces, is what is needed.

I didn't buy 2K5, nor will I buy in the future unless there are several additions which compel me to buy. Not because BBM is bad, but simply because, as this author put it, it "reminds us of those rainbow uniforms the Houston Astros continued to wear long after the day-glo 1970s had come to a close."

[Jeff Olsen]

Originally posted by Steiny
2K5 has just a shade more features than 2K4, which had a shade more to offer than 2K3, and so on, and so on, and so on. To put it gently, BBM is tired and living on past glories You'd be hard-pressed to find any game that doesn't do this.

[egswanso]

with all these sequels, it's bound that each one will not add as much as some would hope (i'm be interested in seeing the occupations of those clamoring for complete re-writes, my guess would be that they shan't know the difficulty/time-considering-ness of what they ask) Remember that Clay does this, more or less, by himself. How many computer games have you written by yourself? So it's a bit unreasonable to say (ex) "Well, the Sims 2 has so many more features then Sims I, why cant BBM do the same". Give Clay a few millions dollars to work with, and i'm sure he'd happily rebuild the AI from the ground up. Until then, stop your bitching.

Switching from defense to common sense... if you dont think a new version adds enough to make it worth-while, DONT BUY it. I bought 2k2, and have enjoyed it immensely. 2k3 came out, i didn't think it merited an upgrade. 2k4 came out, again, I was happy where I was. Now 2k5 is out and compared to 2k2, it brings much more to the table, so i will happliy purchase it.

Americans and your need for instant gratification.

One must ask too, for all those wanting BBM to be an OOTP clone: why dont you just buy and play OOTP instead? This is a free country and expressing your options via your checkbook is the best way to get noticed.

[Khakhan]

Originally posted by egswanso
with all these sequels, it's bound that each one will not add as much as some would hope...

The whole thing was very nicely put. Good to know there's some sane people around

[Steiny]

Originally posted by Jeff Olsen
You'd be hard-pressed to find any game that doesn't do this.

True enough, Jeff, but its taken to a new level with the BBM series nowadays.

Let's just for sake of argument look at the Madden series. Granted, the number of people working on each year's product in the Madden series vs. the BBM series is, well, vastly different, there's one thing that rings true - every edition of the Madden series at least looks vastly different than past editions, and has at least one major improvement that everyone looks at and says, "Cool!"

The BBM series' last improvement to garner "Cool!" as a response prior to the adoption of the amateur draft? The ability to move franchises, which I think happened (don't quote me, and if I get it wrong, don't beat me up for it) the 2K1 version.

While many of us realize that SMI is pretty close to a one-man show, the product itself, BBM, is now suffering due to the lack of creativity that comes with multiple people being involved in the project. Why buy 2K5 when with the exception of one major feature change it is identical to 2K4? "To support Clay and SMI" is what I've read here and there. "It's only $20," I've also read. I'm sorry, but in neither case is that enough anymore.

I'm currently beta testing a politically-based online game where the developer has the same basic human resources as Clay (basically one guy out of his house, with one or two people who help out part-time), but has gone out of his way to solicit the advice, opinions and aid of his customer base - both in terms of general game play and programming assistance. The result? An upcoming product that when finally released will make the two previous editions of the game (both of which were pretty successful in their own right) pale by comparison. Where Clay makes minor changes in a year, this guy has been able to make wholesale changes in weeks - and without the product being more buggy than a no-pest strip.

Clay could easily do likewise. There are lots of people who believe in the product, and who would gladly offer their talents and services to make sure SMI and BBM succeed.

[Jeff Olsen]

Originally posted by Steiny
The BBM series' last improvement to garner "Cool!" as a response prior to the adoption of the amateur draft? The ability to move franchises, which I think happened (don't quote me, and if I get it wrong, don't beat me up for it) the 2K1 version.For me it was the addition of the Lahman database in 2K4. No more creating historical rosters by hand!

[GM24]

What do you guys think of what Brett Todd had to say about the financial system and what he wants to see in it, which are among the following:

Merchandise sales
TV rights/pay contracts (Make it more meaningful)
Bank loans
Expanded player negotiations (so it isnt "stiff")

I think that merchandise sales could be a nuisance, but it would be a good way to measure fan loyalty. Call it a novelty, but it cant hurt.

I dont know what this guy's gripe is with broadcast stuff but he talked alot about it. I'm pretty sure this has been adjusted. Brett Todd said that the difference between the Yankees and A's broadcast revenue is a 20 million dollar difference. In each of the past two years in my sim its been over a 60 mil difference... the Yanks made 3-4 times as much in TV revenue, and they didnt even have a cable contract. So Todd clearly has his head up his arse.

I would love to see a "bank" in the game. Interest levels could fluctuate... you could use it to pay off debts, build a stadium, and do singing bounses

I'd like to see signing bonuses in conjunction with the bank. You could kind of frontload contracts with the bonus... I think it would be good strategy, even if signing bonuses arent really a big thing in the MLB.

Any thoughts on these?

[stat-junkie]

I have bought every version of BM since 99. I hate to say it, but 5.6 is what it deserves. This has always been a great game with flaws, and many of the flaws still haven't been fixed. You keep bringing out virtually the same game every year, and you won't get high rankings.

I think the updates over last years version are worth 20 dollars, but I still wouldn't give it a good review.

[punkviper]

maybe it's time for some fresh insight.
the reviewer is right when he pans the revenue options as boring and not representative of real baseball. why not look into adding options like merchandising or however real major league teams make money (besides essentials like ice cream and beer, ;))

even a few new pics of agents would at least liven the presentation up a bit. sorry, but the frog doesn't count.

the series is stagnating. i still enjoy it and have since '99, but with less and less reasons to keep playing, the naysayers will soon outnumber the fans.