What is the "right price" for BB2K6

[Clay Dreslough]

It looks like we will be able to ship with at least the Top 6 features from this list (http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55470).

We will also be adding shipping with a greatly improved database and a number of other improvements (including, for example, smarter AI and the ability to accurately simulate years before 2004).

In other words, I think this will be the most-improved Baseball Mogul yet.

That said, what's the right price?

Clay

[Steiny]

Just my two cents Clay, but I'd keep the price point where it is. Right or wrong, many of us have bought past 'updated' products only to be disappointed - I'm not really in that group, but it is out there.

Where you can bolster sales isn't by changing price point, but by continuing to substantially upgrade the product, both CD ver. and online, and promoting the living daylights out of it. When a reviewer says something's the same-ol, same-ol (as happened with 2K5 if I'm not mistaken), that's a kiss of death to someone who may own a past product.

Promote it by giving reviewers a look at it well before release (but after any bugs are kinked out). Get some feedback from them as to how they feel it could be improved even further for 2K7. Not that they are the oracle of all things BBM, but it sure doesn't hurt to have them in your corner... and it sure can hurt having them say you're recycling the same stuff year in, year out.

The price point is fine. If it has all the upgrades you're saying it will, it'll sell. Lowering the price lowers the perceived value of the product though, and raising it without a major, major, major upgrade would not help either.

[dabluebery]

This is hard. For many of us, I feel this may not even be an economics issue, meaning that for what you're providing us, paying up to $50 is worth it. I know I would. (Ready for the flaming about how this couldn't be further from the truth)

For you though, you might want to look at this as an opportunity to expand your client base, by offering more product for a similar price. Not sure about your actual numbers, but it seems like a lot of people were disappointed with 2005 after the slightly revolutionary 2004.

2006 (which seems like a few years worth of updates, based on your reports) might be the chance to get them back, and maybe even cut into the OOTP market and expand as your features more or less converge. I can't bring myself to put that much effort into a baseball sim, despite what OOTP offers, which is why I'm looking so forward to BBM2006. It's basically going exactly where I'd want it to if I had to design myself every possible feature.

(Though I'm a little wary about a full minor league system, etc. That seems like a lot of work.)

Anyway, good luck. Hope you sell a million copies.

Rob

[ridge]

Clay,

When do you think Baseball Mogul 2006 will be out ?

[ridge]

Will the minors leagues have complete rosters at all levels ?

and will the rosters be included or will a third party have to develop the minor league rosters

[BluesBroSJ]

Clay, if you come up with all six of those improvements (although i too am not a huge fan of the full minor league system -- seems like too much micromanagement to me) i would gladly pay 40 bucks for this game

BRING ON THE HISTORICAL ROOKIES!

[Scorey1974]

I think a moderate price increase to 24.95 is warranted. The game has been 20.00 for how long now? It's obvious Sports Mogul is concentrating heavily this season on the release of the 2K6 version, and if this game can be available for download of CD by opening day I would gladly support an increase to 24.95. That extra 5 bucks from each purchase could buy some valuable advertising space somewhere. And if that happens we may see Mogul grow by leaps and bounds over the course of the next year. And if that's true you can bet with an increase in the amount of customers there will in return need to be an increase in the maintenance of the game as far as correcting bugs and simply serving us all with improved customer service in all aspects of the game.

[LetsGoOakland]

A couple of things:

When you say the top 6 items...do you mean the top 6 voted items, or the top 6 on the list?

I would gladly pay up to $50.00 for version 2K6. It truly seems like this will be one of the most updated versions, and thats really exciting. There is a difference to what I would be willing to pay and what it is worth to others. I think a fair price is 40 dollars. You look around at MVP Baseball, for example, and I would much rather put down 50 bucks for this game than 25 bucks for that game (if I had to choose). It is important to look at other baseball products in order to set a price. Raising the price may limit the amount of buyers, yet you may get more money due to the increase in price. I hope that it is a high enough price so that you have the incentive to continue working on updates/patches and continue to produce better versions every year. I think a high price will also make you want to improve the game even more - which would be really cool.

I would pay $50 - I think a fair price is $40.

-Will

Thank you for checking in so much with the fans for suggestions/questions.

[TwinswillWin]

i would pay anywhere from free to 40 dollars.

[forbes]

Obviously I'd rather pay $20 than more than that, but if the game does deliver on those new features AND can come with accurate rosters (including prospects) I'd be willing to pay $30-40. But I just don't see paying that much if we have to rely on the heroic efforts by Scorey and Rotochamp (those guys deserve the extra $10-20) to get accurate rosters.

[bryce]

I can't remember the last time I posted on this board, but this subject brought me calling...

First, a recap of my history since I am probably an unknown here:

Summer 2002: I stumbled across this website (can't even remember how) and downloaded the demo with great intrigue. About 8 hours later, somewhere around 4 in the morning, I was still playing the demo before I finally decided to crash out for the night. The next morning I went to Walmart and bought the CD and got all the patches and played the full game with great enjoyment all summer long.

[Sidenote - I was an unemployed CPA thanks to the collapse of Arthur Andrsen that summer (hence, being able to play the demo until dawn), and I think at some point I actually submitted my resume and/or email pleading for a job. I mention this only to serve as a basis for my initial reaction and perception to the company, it's fanbase, this message board (very active at the time), and my view of the potential of their game.]

2003: I eagerly anticipated an update, if for nothing else than to avoid the 'scrolling' issue that irritated me with the '02 version. Being the anal accountant that I was and am, I usually wait a few months until after a release to purchase a game, so as to allow for bugs to be solved and patches to be issued. As such, I regularly checked this website and the message board all summer long. Unfortunately, somewhere around July/August I noticed that all support whatsoever fell completely off the face of the Earth. So much so that I don't think a final patch/version was eve released. But by that time, I gave up even hoping for one, and moved on to a 2004 release, never purchasing the '03 game.

2004: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice.... And another summer goes by where I regularly check these boards and follow the 'progress' of the new version. And I use that term 'progress' VERY, VERY, VERY loosely, as loose as throwing a hotdog down a hallway, and for the second consecutive year, support is lacking, official patches are rare and few and far between, and the 'final' version of the game is not very different than the previous year's version, and still very much bug-ridden at that. (From what I can tell, anyway just from the posts, as I certainly did not buy this version, either.)

Present Day: To answer the poll question, how much should they charge for the '06 version? - NOTHING!!! That's how much! NOTHING!!! Make it freeware!

What are we paying for?!?! A bug ridden game that will never be updated and cured of its bugs that will hardly receive the customer support that other companies provide their customers? (and I am thinking mainly of Jim Grindin’s (spelling?) Solecismic Software and his annual Front Office Football game, which, for comparative sakes, just released an update one full year after its initial release, with updated rosters, a few patches, and several enhancements, FOR FREE!!!) Compare your latest version of Baseball Mogul to the last one, and then reread that description of changes in FOF – why did you shell out $20-$40, or however much you paid?

I have owned a company before in the service industry (blue collar company - chimney sweeping, carpet cleaning, HVAC, etc), and we were about a $1 million revenue company, and we relied 100% on good word-of-mouth and good service, so I have some experience with customer service from 'the other side,' so I think I have some sort of reference point when I say that I have never, ever seen such utter incompetence with said customer service as with this 'company.'

From what I can tell there are about 4 people who regularly post on these forums. A far cry from ’02 when I discovered it. I just picture this company dealing with its customers in a dual-like face-off. On the one side are the customers who are demanding a better product, with more features and updates, with stellar customer service and follow up, but who refuse to pay for a new release until there is sufficient evidence of all of these things being present. On the other side is Sports Mogul, who seemingly refuses to provide any of this support until people buy their game and give them a reason to support it, and until they reach a certain dollar amount, the owners don’t see sufficient reason to support the game…

Guess what, Sports’Mogul’??? - It’s up to YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU and nobody else to make the first move. YOU have to make a better game with more annual enhancements. You have to provide better support. YOU have to make US, as consumers, want to buy YOUR game. And, frankly, this hasn’t been the case since ’02, and until YOU prove otherwise, YOU will not see one penny of MINE ever again.

This ‘aint’ no poker game, Clay and Co. Stop treating like it is. Make a move – make us WANT to spend OUR money on YOU. You haven’t done that in years. Stop bluffing us with a pair of 5’s. A couple years I bought into it; now, I’m calling you out on it.

I’ve since bought every version of OOTP, and I don’t even like the **** game. Every **** year I get about 15 games into my season, and that’s as far as I get before I lose interest. Yet every year I buy the game. Why is that? Because I can count on them, I know what to expect, I know bugs will be patched, there will be support, and questions I ask in the forums will be answered. I'm out of the baseball game buying business this year, though. OOTP bores me; Mogul can't do anything right.

Screw it – I’m about to start my own company – that seems about the only way to get a decent baseball game, do it myself! Take the financial/GM aspect of Mogul, and combine that with the support and some of the nitty gritty of OOTP (lefty/righty splits, ie), and you got yourself a game, folks!

If anyone actually read all this, I should buy you a beer. If anyone with SportsMogul actually read all this, you should make a game worth purchasing!
Bryce

[B. Gizzle]

I'd pay 50 if the upgrades warrant such a price increase, lord knows I spend too many hours on this....

anyways, these extra features are all nice but you still need that improvement in the economic system. That's not really an upgrade, but rather fixing an extended problem. Please please fix that problem. (Details have been posted several times).

[OhPhilly54]

Originally posted by bryce
If anyone actually read all this, I should buy you a beer.

Sweet! I get a beer! :D You made some good points. I too have noticed a drop in support however, like you, I always find myself waiting for the release.

I'm giving Mogul this year because it seems like Clay and co really want to make their product better. Still, I don't think I would pay much more than 5 bucks over the usual price. Sure, I have bought mogul since 1997 or whenever the first game was released. But prove to me the game is worth more money and then I'll pay top dollar.

[Scorey1974]

In response to "Bryce"...

For the last few years this company has basically consisted of 2 guys (Clay Dreslough and Ian Smith)...And from what I gather the game has went through a darkened period and has seen a steep decline.

It seems at this time, Clay has realized this and is making a concerted effort to "rebuild" the franchise of Baseball Mogul. I know he is looking into many options as far as getting more exposure for the game. Along with more exposure will have to be more customer service and a bug-free game.

I have a feeling 2K6 will get Mogul back on the right track as I have seen a 1000% increase in Clay's activity on the message boards. He needs to continue to do this and at some point after the new year I would like to see him "leak" us a few hints as to what is to come with this great game.

To address the roster comments made above. The game should definitely come with better rosters to start out with and I think Clay will be using and committing more of his resources into getting the game to us with better rosters to start out with so that the customers will not have to wait for a third party such as myself or Rotochamp to deliver.

In summary, I really think we are about to see whether Sports Mogul is going to sink or swim with this next season. Either Clay will deliver or he will not. I have a passion for this game and want to see it succeed. So inevitably I am hoping for the best! Clay is smart enough to know that Mogul is not what it once was and I truly believe he is dedicating himself to the revival of Baseball Mogul.

The jury is still out...

[Jeff Olsen]

Originally posted by bryce
What are we paying for?!?! A bug ridden game that will never be updated and cured of its bugs that will hardly receive the customer support that other companies provide their customers?

I’ve since bought every version of OOTP, and I don’t even like the **** game. Every **** year I get about 15 games into my season, and that’s as far as I get before I lose interest. Yet every year I buy the game. Why is that? Because I can count on them, I know what to expect, I know bugs will be patched, there will be support, and questions I ask in the forums will be answered. I don't know how to tell you this but Mogul isn't the only one with persistent bugs (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/showthread.php?t=74127&highlight=ancient+bugs). :)

[SimFreak]

Originally posted by Jeff Olsen
I don't know how to tell you this but Mogul isn't the only one with persistent bugs (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/showthread.php?t=74127&highlight=ancient+bugs). :)

My statement on the matter is:

"There is NO GAME ON THE PLANET w/o bugs and or problems."

[Hash1]

I think maybe you should consider a bmo/bm2k6 package deal. Alot of these guys have never tried out bmo and im sure they would like it. If you could get about half the guys over to bmo than that would really help SM and also improve bmo a ton being that there would be way more full leagues etc. Anyways what i would suggest is charge 24.95 for bm2k6 plus 2 months free on bmo( that offer only available to people who do not play bmo yet) or 20.95 just for the game

[OhPhilly54]

"I have a feeling 2K6 will get Mogul back on the right track as I have seen a 1000% increase in Clay's activity on the message boards. He needs to continue to do this and at some point after the new year I would like to see him "leak" us a few hints as to what is to come with this great game."

Me too. Which is why I will buy this game. :) I say all this as a mogul addict so keep in mind I will probably almost always buy this game.

[Steiny]

Originally posted by Hash1
I think maybe you should consider a bmo/bm2k6 package deal.

I like this idea, but 2 mos. isn't enough... a $24.95 buys BBM2K6 and 6 mos. of BBMO, with the updates that are coming, and I'll buy - just so I could come back and kick Dabs a$s again. :D

[boomboom]

Originally posted by Steiny
I like this idea, but 2 mos. isn't enough... a $24.95 buys BBM2K6 and 6 mos. of BBMO, with the updates that are coming, and I'll buy - just so I could come back and kick Dabs a$s again. :D

I would pay up to 39.99 for the game, anymore than that, clay would have to buy me a drink;) and give me his company..j/k

I think that it should be 29.99 with 2months free of BMO.
Also for customers of BMO, the rate should be 24.99...because many BMOers dish out around $180 each year for the online game, plus an extra $20.00 for the cd version.

I think the best way to improve sales is buy promoting the online version of the game, that is where mogul has the most opportunity for growth because there isnt another game on the market that is like that.

To bryce:

I see that you are very angry. If you actually tried out 2k3, probably the best sales from any game, it is a HUGE upgrade from 2k2. 2k4 is a HUGE upgrade from 2k3. And the new transaction log...is one of the best aspects to the game.... If you had fun with 2k2, then you would have fun with the full-version of 2k5. Why should you get the game for free, when there is a reason why the game isnt improving because you havent boughten the game for 3 1/2 years.... You should try something and make your own opinions before you read somebody elses comments....

[boomboom]

Originally posted by Steiny
I like this idea, but 2 mos. isn't enough... a $24.95 buys BBM2K6 and 6 mos. of BBMO, with the updates that are coming, and I'll buy - just so I could come back and kick Dabs a$s again. :D

and i assume become the post pad champion again:p ;)

[Electricbassguy]

I'd prefer it to be $19.99-$29.99, but I'd pay $35-$45 bucks if all those features that we were polled on were added.

Especially multi-tiered systems (3 levels) and player personality.


Also we should have the ability to see College/HS stats on our draftees

[kennybear]

hey clay

im willing to pay a fair price for the game. But how about throwing us long timers a bone to help. We all want this game done right. How about letting some of us test out the game for a month befor the release date. **** i would even pay the full game price for the pre release as long as i got a copy of the final.

[boomboom]

Originally posted by kennybear
hey clay

im willing to pay a fair price for the game. But how about throwing us long timers a bone to help. We all want this game done right. How about letting some of us test out the game for a month befor the release date. **** i would even pay the full game price for the pre release as long as i got a copy of the final.

Kennybear, I would love to see this, having players that play BMO beta test the new version....I would love to see some of the bugs killed before the release date....Anything to help you clay, I am all there.:)

[boomboom]

bump...these could be the prices of 2k6....i might even be as high as 35.95...

[Clay Dreslough]

Baseball Mogul 2K6 is going on sale today at $19.95. Thanks for all the comments.

Instead of offering a BB2K6/BMO package deal, with all the passwords and other hassle of making that work right, we're keeping BB2K6 affordable even with all the new features. If you have any "extra" money, I strongly suggest you try BMO, especially after we update in the new couple of months.

It was a somewhat "unfair" beta test in that I don't think I was able to include folks like KennyBear on the list. But we got a good number of BMO players to spend time with it.

Clay

[alvarez16]

nice, just 19.99

[boomboom]

Originally posted by alvarez16
nice, just 19.99

why did you even post?

[alvarez16]

i was just stating that i was happy that the game is 19.99