What's the craziest thing you've read/heard today?

[etothep]

Cause this story tops it

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/c...73f7f91e6.html

CLAYTON • A woman who admitted participating in the rape of her infant daughter was sentenced Monday to two consecutive life sentences in prison after her attorneys failed to convince a judge that she should get probation because of a psychological disorder.

Attorneys for Tessa L. Vanvlerah, 22, had a forensic psychologist testify at the sentencing hearing in St. Louis County Circuit Court that Vanvlerah has a dependent-personality disorder.

Dr. Brooke Kraushaar said it caused Vanvlerah to participate in the sexual fantasies of Kenneth M. Kyle, a college professor from California about twice her age, even though she knew sex acts involving her then-5-month-old daughter were wrong.

Kyle, who met Vanvlerah online, was sentenced in March to 37½ years in federal prison after pleading guilty of abusing the child during several visits to St. Louis in 2009. He first came to authorities' attention through the sharing of child pornography online.

Kraushaar, who was hired by defense lawyers Brent Labovitz and Kevin Whiteley, described Vanvlerah as "a passive offender" who was so afraid of being rejected by others that she also allowed Kyle to choke, burn and urinate on her.

The psychologist said prison time would put Vanvlerah at risk of getting into further trouble because of the dominant personalities there.

Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Kathi Alizadeh, however, disputed the diagnosis and pressed for the two life sentences.

She pointed out in cross-examination that Vanvlerah exercised free will in electronic communications with another man. Vanvlerah carved her nickname for the man, "Lord Nikon," into her skin at his request, the prosecutor said, but drew the line at one of his suggestions involving bestiality.

Alizadeh said police also learned that Vanvlerah talked with a man from Avon, Mo., who sent her child pornography and who spoke of coming to St. Louis to have sex with her infant. It was never acted upon.

In 2008, a woman obtained a court order of protection against Vanvlerah, then 18, accusing her of seducing and having sex with the woman's 16-year-old autistic son. According to Alizadeh, it resulted in Vanvlerah's pregnancy.

Alizadeh pointed out that Vanvlerah smiled in pictures showing Kyle with the infant.

Vanvlerah, of the 200 block of Solon Drive in Ballwin, was forced to give up custody of the child after being charged in April 2010 with first degree statutory rape and sodomy, as well as incest and child pornography. The pornography charge was dropped prior to her guilty plea in January.

The child's foster mother, who has since adopted her, said in a victim's impact statement that the child initially would scream and cry when someone bathed her or changed her diaper. Today, at age 3, the woman said, the child has night terrors and asks her at each bedtime to make sure nobody else comes into the home.

The woman, in tears, said the girl was, however, getting better day by day now that she "is no longer Tessa's plaything and she is no longer Tessa's child."

[HoustonGM]

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2...wzWnJQ.twitter

"I know in your mind you can think of times when America was attacked. One is December 7th, that's Pearl Harbor day. The other is September 11th, and that's the day of the terrorist attack," Kelly said at a press conference on Capitol Hill. "I want you to remember August the 1st, 2012, the attack on our religious freedom. That is a day that will live in infamy, along with those other dates."

[asianinvasion]

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/arc...hington-ballot

Not that crazy but interesting. We've been blue since '88 so I don't think it really matters in the large picture but it would affect the gubernatorial election which tends to be a lot closer. If less Republicans come out if Romney is ineligible, then the Democratic gubernatorial candidate should have a better chance to win. And this is important because in 2004, Gregoire, the Democratic nominee, won by 129 votes.

[haveacigar]

Cause this story tops it

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/c...73f7f91e6.html

Wow, that's terrible......









I would've scored the not guilty.

[haveacigar]

Craziest thing I've heard today is....

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/article...al-assault.htm

[Kobie]

wot

[dickay]

Craziest thing I've heard today is....

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/article...al-assault.htm

why is that crazy...if we're being honest.

i explained the reddit question to 5 co-workers this morning, all highly educated individuals, and while they all thought it was disgusting to a man (and woman) each thought that maybe there could be some benefit from hearing what is the thought process of the criminal. maybe we could learn something from it? then when I read the shrink's comments they all agreed that he made some good points and that the thread is dangerous and should be left to professionals behind closed doors.

i think if we're being honest with ourselves, most read the first paragraph or two and felt, "whats the big deal?", and after reading the psychologists reply we said, "oh".

[free2131]

I read a lot of the thread and found it to be very informative. Especially with the "almost rape" stories and the thinking behind them. Interesting how the mind works, and I could totally see myself in the same situations as the other guys who tiptoed the line.

[OregonDuck1989]

I was worried about that thread when I first saw it. But not for the reason the therapist posted. When she posted that I was like....oh....wow....that's not good.

But I just thought a lot of these guys weren't sharing their experiences to get help they were kind of sort of bragging. I don't know.

[free2131]

I was worried about that thread when I first saw it. But not for the reason the therapist posted. When she posted that I was like....oh....wow....that's not good.

But I just thought a lot of these guys weren't sharing their experiences to get help they were kind of sort of bragging. I don't know.

Well, it's not all guys either. Just a few quick posts that I found interesting:

Never told anyone this... I always felt a little weird about it, until I read the thread about men being raped. Then I felt awful. A friend of mine came over one night just to watch a movie. We ended up snuggling and then kissing, then it progressed almost to sex. He stopped me and said he wasn't really comfortable with this, looked nervous, and said "maybe we should stop". I basically ignored him, kissed him, and went ahead with it anyway. Afterwards, I told him that we should keep this between us. I assumed he was going to leave so when he mentioned sleeping over and cuddling, I seemed pretty put off by the idea but agreed. The next morning he left and we haven't talked since. If our genders were the other way around that would have easily been grounds for rape and I have always felt shitty about it. Since I haven't talked to him I don't know how he feels about it, so I just assume the worst.

This brings up several interesting things about the gender reversal. I feel like a lot of men would feel bad for turning you down. Society pushes the idea that sex is the ultimate form of gratification for men, and that if he turned it down he must be some sort of wuss / homosexual.

Also, a lot of people said that he could have just thrown you off of him. This is also not really an option. Sure, if he didn't know you and you pushed him into an alley and tried to have your way with him, I'm sure he would have fought back. But from your post, it seems like you were friends, and you were in a home with a comfortable (up until then) situation. Suddenly deciding to get physical and potentially hurt you did not seem like the best idea at the time, especially when you consider that he seemed like he couldn't make up his mind.

Also, thank you for sharing this post. It takes a lot of courage to post things like this, especially when you're the bad guy.

ok..here it is.

It happened when I was maybe 22. I had been visiting a buddy of mine who was living in a basement apartment in a college town. Upstairs lived a single dad and his teenage daughter. The dad worked nights if I recall.

So I show up to my buddies place, and we're having fun day hanging out, pre-drinking before we hit the bars that night. It was summer. The girl from upstairs had a couple friends over. I can't remember how it happened, but me and the girl (she was maybe 17) ended up play wrestling with me pinning her down. We were all laughing, but we when made eye contact...it was "that" look we exchanged. The.."I'd **** you" look. I immediatly got up and later me and my buddie went to the bar. The night would have gone like any other, drinking, dancing, hitting on women. I remember getting back to the house, and my buddy led me into the girls room. He asked her if I could crash in her room. I was kinda astounded actually that she said yes.

I think thats when in my drunken mind I thought that she MUST have wanted it.

I was on one side of the bed, clumsily trying to play footsie with her. She seemed kinda nervous, but at the same time I remember she was saying provocative things. At some point I just said screw it and climbed on top of her and tried to kiss her. She tried to squirm away.

Now, I remember exactly what I was thinking at the time. This girl gave me "the look" earlier, she invited me into her bed. What teenage girl would pass up the oppertunity to be with a 22 year old guy? She MUST want it. I tried again, and slid my hands over her body.

It was then I looked at her face. She was petrified. I at that point pulled myself together, rolled off her and apologized. My hormones were RAGING. I asked her why she didn't want to. I told her what I thought above. She started to cry.

I got up, apologized again and went to the couch and spent the night staring at the ceiling thinking I was going to go to jail.

My buddy got up and we went for breakfast. When we got back, one the girls friends was there and demanded to speak to me outside. She quietly told me that her friend said I tried to rape her. She wanted to hear my side, since the day before I seemed like such a funny/sweet guy. I told her the story. She looked at me with a disgust I'll never forget and said that I may not have been an actual rapist...but I was as close to one as you could get. I wanted to apologise again, but her friend said it best that I just leave. I got in my car and left right away.

That was the lowest I've ever felt in my life.

My story learning this first hand:

Went on a double date in college, dinner and dancing. The girl was all over me on the dance floor after dinner, we were making out she was feeling my package up and moaning, etc.

We end up going back to my place (both drunk) she pulls me onto the bed and we start making out. We escalate from making out to grinding and "heavy petting" while she is moaning and getting more and more into it the entire time while she is grinding on top of me. I flip her around so she is laying on her back and in my mind i think "she has been grinding on me for 30 minutes and is super into it lets try to get those clothes off" so I reach into her pants and start feeling around.

While kissing her around her neck etc i notice the positive feedback is not happening any more and she is really stiffening up. I stop kissing her, sit up and look at her and ask "hey is this alright"? at this point she just bursts into tears and says NO and starts sobbing.

I always think back to this night and wonder what would have happened if I didnt ask the question? would she have gone along with it? She stiffened up but she never put her hands on me to slow down or said anything. Would she have claimed raped to her friend after? I dunno. Ever since then I ALWAYS ask at every single different "step" because it is better to look like an noob than a rapist. It is really hard in this situation as a guy because gender roles demand that you push/escalate the sexual encounters.
In my experience, if the guy doesnt constantly try to get to the next base with the girl putting the limit and saying "no i am not ready" then the girl will think the guy isnt into them. Every time I have rejected a girl for sex or "advancing" they immediately ask "what is wrong? am I not good/pretty/nice enough?" You really cant win.

i've been accused of rape in a similar situation, but we actually had sex. she invited me in specifically to have sex, using those exact words: "let's have sex. right now." That excited me and i was ready to do it for sure. I was inexperienced and she was kind of stiff/lifeless. I went down on her, she didn't respond, i came up and penetrated her, didn't finish, realized it was going nowhere, got off of her and rested for awhile til I decided to slip out into the night.

A few days later her friends started texting me attacking me over "what i did to *****" and I was just dumbstruck... til that point i had thought of it as nothing more than bad sex. a sloppy, drunk, awful attempt to screw that neither of us enjoyed. Her friends affirmed that she had called it rape and were really angry at me and alienated me from our mutual group of friends. feels bad.

I wish this had more answers, rather than a debate about how many rape cases are real or not. Heres the best I can give you, although I should give a throwaway account because my friends know this one. **** it; Hi Kyle.

I got obliterated one time at a party. I mean completely out of my mind. A person, also drunk, lied down next to me to cuddle, and eventually I decided to fool around with them. It took me a solid five or ten minutes in my drunken stupor to realize they had been passed out the whole time I was doing this.When I realized, I felt ****ing sick with myself, and decided to tell them the next morning.

Heres the thing though, I'm a girl. Immediately upon telling him this he burst out laughing at me, called me a rapist, and we went to breakfast with our friends.So in a way, I raped a dude. It scares me to think how that situation would have played out if the roles were reversed, and the reaction of horror and disgust that would have happened if I was a guy and had to tell a girl what went down.

TLDR: I could have been a criminal and a social pariah if I had different chromosomes, but instead I got free breakfast. Life is neat?

That's just a select few, but while a few rapists might get off airing their crimes, I think a lot more is gained by this than not. Plus, reading through that thread led me to watch this documentary which shows just how much rape and abuse (in this case incestual) can really destroy not just a person, but an entire family.

[OregonDuck1989]

Well I wasn't saying it was all bad.

But, it wasn't perfect.

[free2131]

Besides, how far do we go with this? No stories about people who have been raped on talk shows, because that will make rapers wanna rape. No more CSI: Kalamazoo because it will make rapers wanna rape.

[OregonDuck1989]

Besides, how far do we go with this? No stories about people who have been raped on talk shows, because that will make rapers wanna rape. No more CSI: Kalamazoo because it will make rapers wanna rape.

I'd watch the **** out of CSI Kalamazoo

[haveacigar]

Since I'm working in criminal defense, I get exposed to the rapist's side of the story often. I can assure you, there's very little to learn. There's no insight into the human condition learned from the event. You're simply gauging the relative depravity of one's mind at that point. If you really need to learn what that is, there are plenty of sources that will teach you about depravity, without creating an open public forum for it. Not every story needs to be told.

The problem is that, unlike just about every other crime, rape is not really one that lends itself to justification. I can think of reasons why circumstances can force you to steal, lie, defraud, even murder.....rape? nah. There are occasionally cases where I do feel bad for the accused in rape cases, but that's usually cases where the accused did something that is only "rape" by statute and would not be considered rape by general standards (girl lies and says she's 18 and they do something consensual, 19 year old with a 17 year old girlfriend, etc.). Those cases are pretty rare.

One of the common victim-blaming statements is that "well, the victim shouldn't have put themselves in that situation." But I read every story that free quoted and I think to myself, why did the "perp" put themselves in that situation? There are certainly degrees of sexual assault (someone who gets overly horny with a drunk chick at a party is probably less culpable than Jerry Sandusky), but at it's most basic form, it is a person placing their own hormonal urges above all else. Rather than being absolutely sure that the person is on board, and in the right frame of mind to make that decision (and that's a factor that is ignored FAR too often), people act first and ask questions later. We need to stop making excuses for the story of "I was drunk, she was drunk, we fooled around" situation.

Is there a double-standard? Absolutely. Guess what: the long-term establishment of a heavily white, male, Protestant Christian dominated society creates double-standards. The fact of the matter is that society places different sexual contexts upon each gender. So yes, generally speaking, date rape of a girl is more serious than date rape of a guy. And calling a black person the N-word is worse than calling a white person cracker. It's a simple reality. Frankly, I'd love to see the wide-ranging shift in cultural equality necessary to create a situation where rape just isn't that bad anymore. I'm not optimistic that that ever happens.

[dickay]

Frankly, I'd love to see the wide-ranging shift in cultural equality necessary to create a situation where rape just isn't that bad anymore. I'm not optimistic that that ever happens.

?? Are you saying that you want to see society become more accepting of rape??

this whole post confused me. you're talking about the need to stop making/accepting excuses for the rapist, then it seems youre blaming white male christians for creating double standards, then you're saying society should be more accepting of rapists? At least thats what I think you're saying....i really don't know. Can you clarify?